Interesting: why we have a short span of life

[Kenneth Clark]

how do i highlight others words to not look like my own...not computer junk savoy

[Kat]

Hi Kenneth,

To highlight you drag the cursor over the part you want to separate out and leave it darkened. Then go up to the symbol boxes above the box for writing out your post and select the box that when you hold the cursor over it it will read 'insert quote,' left click that box. You can practice and 'preview' to see if it comes up right (scroll up to see the preview), as only the bracketed letters will show before you post.

You do the same to make your print BOLD, click on the box with the B, and the box with the slant I for italic print, and to underline it's the box with the U.

Kat

[Kenneth Clark]

Hi Kenneth,

To highlight you drag the cursor over the part you want to separate out and leave it darkened. Then go up to the symbol boxes above the box for writing out your post and select the box that when you hold the cursor over it it will read 'insert quote,' left click that box. You can practice and 'preview' to see if it comes up right (scroll up to see the preview), as only the bracketed letters will show before you post.

You do the same to make your print BOLD, click on the box with the B, and the box with the slant I for italic print, and to underline it's the box with the U.

Kat

test...did i get it?

[Kenneth Clark]

yep...thanks Kat

[Joel]

There are some questions that come to mind concerning the flood of Noah's day.
What could the world population at that time have been? God knew what amount of water would be needed to destroy everthing that needed to be destroyed.
We know by the scriptures that he used just enough fire and brimstone to take care of Soddom and Gomorrah. I don't think he used a lot of overkill in either occasion.
The Bible says that he set the bounds for the seas, so why couldn't he have done the same during the time of the flood? And was the earth's land to water ratio the same as it is today, did the continents exist as they do now?
2nd Peter 2:5 And spared NOT the OLD world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Joel

[Kat]

Hi Joel,

The flood was in 2285BC, according to a study Ray did, link to Bible study http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10047.0.html  So that puts the flood around 4297 yrs ago. The continental drift is continuing even now at about as fast as fingernails grow. So even in thousands of yrs it is not enough to have any impact to how the animals traveled across vast areas of land and water to reach the ark. There were animals spread over every land mass and many species were isolated in certain areas. I'm not suggesting that God could not have worked miracles to have made that happen, but to save every species... resent estimates have it at about 8.7 million, many requiring special habitat to survive.

Even if God just put one cat type animal to represent them all (well over 100 wild and domesticated breeds) and then when that one was released it was to go out and regenerate all the differing breeds and they were to spread out into their known habitate of today. There is no scientific evidence of such a thing happening.

This idea goes against all the scientific research of animal life that we have. Sure God could have miraculously done it all, but where is the evidence that should be still present if such a thing happened?

Anyway just trying to look at from a realistic viewpoint.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[doug]

Hey Kat -

I've been following your and Joel's discussion, and these "earth beginnings" ideas interest me too.

As I had once stated in my intro, I needed to do a complete paradigm shift in many of my interpretations and especially with the "young earth" theory and also a "world-wide" flood.  I had believed that in the days of Peleg that the "earth" was divided.
A catastrophic event indeed!  Now, I believe that it was the nations divided, with languages, customs etc.

Here is a gif of what I believe now..... only at a "fingernails" growth pace!



I am still wondering how the Ice Age and the raising and lowering of the sea levels fit into the picture. 

doug

[indianabob]

Hi Doug,
Just wondering whether the option of Subsidence would substitute for plate tectonics. Only because subsidence would leave the land masses in place above the molten lava rather than having the land masses travel thousands of miles. It would cause a lot less trauma for the planet if the molten lava oozed away from under the ocean beds rather than having the whole plate, several miles thick with all its underpinnings, moving however slowly just to satisfy the supposed need for the animals to have been able to migrate on foot and not on the ships of humans transporting them for commerce.

Bob

[doug]

Hey Bob!

I only know of continental drift as the seismic movements of the earth's plate/crust that as it cools over time it cracks, forming the plates and drifting above the earth's molten core, or lava as you suggest.  I didn't know that there was any other theory.

This goes very slowly of course... about 3 centimeters per year is what the scientists tell us.   Actually we are just floating around on the earth's upper mantle.  Kinda like a concrete worker kneeling on a board over newly poured wet concrete.  The earth's core being so hot as it is will cause this mantle convection to pull along the oceanic and Continental plates for a long while to come!  You would think that after billions of years of cooling that the earth would have completely cooled off by now!

doug

[indianabob]

Doug,
Appreciate your additional information.
The question that keeps bothering me is the millions of years that we seem to be assuming for change of any great magnitude. What about catastrophic changes?

Imagine how God assembled the earth in the first instance with all the requirements of lava for the mantle and a magnetic field for electric power and of balance of systems to keep it rotating and orbiting and retaining a moon and holding a certain amount of air of a certain special chemical mix in order to sustain life as we know it.
With all that was needed for the original requirements why is it absolutely necessary that it be millions of years old? Do we think that God had to assemble the earth one step at a time? I don't.

[Kat]

Bob, certainly you are aware of Ray's 2008 Nashville Conference? These things were the main topics that he discussed over those 2 days and we received the primary points after his studying this for a year or more. He had to dug through tons of scientific information to put together that conference material and one thing that he made quite clear was that the young earth theory did not have a leg to stand on. I for one am very thankful for all the work he did, it cleared up a lot of these issues and made me aware of things I had not even considered. I now have a much better Biblical and logical understanding. Here is the links for anyone interested.

Transcript
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,9502.0.html

Audios
Saturday morning part #1: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession1.mp3
Saturday morning part #2: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession2.mp3
Saturday morning part #3: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession3.mp3
Saturday morning part #4: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession4.mp3
Saturday morning part #5: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession5.mp3
Saturday morning part #6: http://bible-truths.com/audio/Nash08ConfSession6.mp3

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gina]

Kat,

Thanks for pulling out those links and for your comment. 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the material that Ray diligently researched and then presented -- at his own expense while suffering from bone cancer -- makes logical sense.

"Where Did God Get Knowledge" excerpt:

I ask the question... I had a debate with Jeff Priddy, I friend of mine, has some screwy ideas, but he's a nice guy. I was talking about emotions and he said, 'Ray God does not have emotions.' I said, well what is love and how come God is love, if God does not have emotion. He said, 'No, that's just for human terms and He is so way above and beyond that and everything else.' 

But then over time I got to thinking about that and I said, wait a minute in Galatians 5 we are given a list of the fruits of God Spirit. One of them in the King James is longsuffering.  Okay longsuffering, what does that mean? Patience. What is that made up of? Is it made up as an archaic English term? 

Longsuffering - to suffer long. One of the fruits of God Spirit is to suffer long. How can it be a fruit of God's Spirit if He doesn't even possess it Himself? 

I told somebody that I was going to ask a question at this conference; Did God ever do an honest days work in His life? I mean a really hard day's work. Did He? Well you would say, 'well He created the universe, that was a little work.' No, all these Christians theologies say He just spoke it, let there be stars... let there be suns and moons... let there be an earth... let there this and that... just let there be... let it be... let it be... and there you are.  Wow, I'm tried I think I'll rest a day.

Did God ever do an honest hard days work in His life? You say, 'Ray it doesn't apply, you can't apply what we do to what He does.' How can you say it doesn't apply? Jesus Christ worked and He suffered, He had long suffering and He had patience and He was the very image of His Father! The expressed stamped image of His Father! And we are to be in the image of Jesus Christ (Rom. 08). In the very image of God and the very image of Jesus Christ, our elder brother.

So how could Jesus have all this love and all this patience and all this mercy and He said everything He got came from His Father? Every thought He thought, every word He spoke, every deed He done came from His Father. How can you say the Father doesn't have patience? 

Patience is doing without something you want, but you can't have it now. You have to exercise patience. You might even have to have long suffering, you might have to suffer long. That is a fruit of God's Spirit.

I could never believe in my heart of hearts that God would expect of us, things that He would not move His little finger to do Himself.

Jesus Christ berated the Pharisees. He said you load these heavy heavy burdens on people, very difficult for them to do what you tell them they need to do to be holy and righteous and good. Yet you would not move them with one of your fingers.

Mat 23:4  For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Is He accusing the Pharisees of something His own Father is guilty of? Are you following me? Is Jesus Christ condemning and berating the Pharisees for something His own Father is guilty of... that He lays heavy burdens on us and He wouldn't lift them with one of His fingers, but we have to? We have to suffer through sixty or eighty years of sometimes horrible misery and disease and heartache and everything. What does God know about that? Nothing? I don't think so. I don't buy that nonsense anymore. I think that God has gone through a lot for us.


Love that.  So how much patience do we believe God needed to create the universe and deal with the sin of humanity for the last 2000 years, alone?  Logic dictates it would necessarily take heaping hordes of patience.  If we're in doubt, all we have to do is look at our own little lives and marriages and children, if we have them; or of the lives, etc., of those around us.   Life's not easy; and if your life is easy (little or no troubles, persecutions, etc.,) that's not exactly a good sign.

[the truth]

Hello,All

I am really reluctant to post this because I don't want anyone to get offended over it.But hopefully that want happen.Because this is just My thoughts on the subject   Sons of God......Sons of Seth?Which Ireland stated he believed it was fallen angels.Which many disagree and that's fine .Just ask for the grace to share my thoughts that all.


Jerry Bulla

Message flagged

Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:55 PM







interesting subject!

Would like to comment on it.As Ireland shared something I have found pretty interesting myself .

I want to say first that this is a tuff topic in regards to the Sons of God because people seem to be pretty dogmatic about either side.

What is it Sons of God ....Angels..fallen or the Sons of Seth?

Ray said this:Here's what Ray has said regarding the matter:

The angels CANNOT MARRY (they have no 'marriage apparatus' if you know what I mean). Yet we are told in Gen. 6:2, that "they took them WIVES of all which they chose." To have a "wife" one must be "MARRIED."   The sons of God and the daughters of men are BOTH HUMAN. 
( http://bible-truths.com/email12.htm )

"...they have no marriage apparatus if you know what I mean."  Ha! See now that makes a lot of sense.

{Jerry-quote]
With the understanding that The Scriptures do say 'Angles are not given in Marriage"..maybe cause there all Masculine?
And as some would say"A statement of fact is not a statement of limitation"

Could it not be that since they were fallen that they obtained a "apparatus".?
Jesus was Immortality...And came to be man and  unless I am missing something he had a "apparatus'?
One could believe that Adam and Eve was Immortal before they partook of the forbidden fruit? since Adam said this is Bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.And never said anything about "blood of my blood"
so just maybe just like Adam and Eve may have went from Immortal to Mortal,maybe fallen angles went to immortal to mortal with a apparatus.? ,Just a thought?

[Jerry-quote]
But to see what Scripture says is how we make our choices on what to believe not mortality.
Gen-6-4 Its obvious by context that He is talking about giants {heb-nephilim-fallen or mighty ones]in verse 1 it says ..when men{Adam] begin to multiply.
then in v-4..Why did jump from men to Giants?..There are beliefs that Angles can be good size dudes.They turned the stone away for Jesus!
Now as we read Gen-6-4-8
Gen 6:4  There were giants in the earth in those days;Gen 6:4  There wereH1961 giantsH5303 in the earthH776 in thoseH1992 days;H3117 and alsoH1571 afterH310 that,H3651 whenH834 the sonsH1121 of GodH430 came inH935 untoH413 the daughtersH1323 , and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Gen 6:5  And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6  And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7  And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8  But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Notice that was h430 used in verse 4!
[Jerry-quote....just maybe we could think the following?]
1.v-4 -God did say "Everthing after its own kind"And the Angles knew this .so its obvious they sinned against God!Jude 1-6..I think shows this.

Jud 1:6 Besides, messengers who keep not their own sovereignty, but leave their own habitation, He has kept in imperceptible bonds under gloom for the judging of the great day.

2.v-5-8-One could draw the conclusion that just maybe Noah Family found grace because his seed was the only ones who had not been made hybrid you know half  immortal/mortal. and why did he say he would destroy  MAN,and Beast,creeping things,birds of air?Maybe they were corrupted by the fallen angles as well... having a apparatus? Some carnality might find animals sexy?

I believe Lot knew of what God thought about this mixing seed stuff when He offered His Daughters to the the carnal people of Sodom and Gomorrah.And I believe its why God said to kill women .children and all many times in Old Testament.

In Job 38-7-Reads..

Job 38:7  When the morningH1242 starsH3556 sangH7442 together,H3162 and allH3605 the sonsH1121 of GodH430 shouted for joy

H430-our Angles...... not men?

H430
אלהים
'ĕlôhîym
el-o-heem'
Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very)

Are we to say that the Sons of Seth were with the morning stars shouting for joy?It seems to me God is speaking of something before men were around?see....v-4.

Psa 82:6  IH589 have said,H559 Ye are gods;H430 and allH3605 of youH859 are childrenH1121 of the most High.H5945

Again we have H430...Angles being referenced as children of God.then verse 7;

Psa 82:7  ButH403 ye shall dieH4191 like men,H120 and fallH5307 like oneH259 of the princes.H8269

Ray always said if Christendom taught it it probably isn't right.And I know they teach Sons of Seth.

So just my thoughts that's all.God Bless!