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New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.

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believerchrist100:

--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on June 22, 2012, 12:45:38 PM ---Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.  Deut 6:4

That men may know from the rising to the setting of the sun That there is no one besides Me.  I am Jehovah, and there is no other.  Isa 45:6

--- End quote ---

Taken from the 2007 Nashville Conference:

Even though we give Jesus the designation Jehovah/Elohim, it still includes the Father. Why? Because there is only ONE Elohim! He is the Jehovah, one God - there is the Father, one God and together they are the one God. You just have to believe the scriptures. 

John 10:30  I and My Father are one.

One what? One God and it’s understood, We are one... one God. We two, are one. Whenever two are of the same mind and spirit, they are considered one.
 
Now we only have one analogy of that in the scripture, and it’s of a husband and wife. Isn’t it interesting when He says that they are joined together. Because when you are joined together, it’s like you stick a plug in the wall. The plug that you stick in is the male and the wall plug is called the female. So it’s when a man and woman join there bodies. They are literally inside of each others body, they are one, see, literally they are one. That is the most intimate relationship there is, on the human plain, sexual intercourse with a man and a woman, you literally become one body. Because it signifies being one in Spirit. But Paul says he speaks of this concerning Christ and the church in Ephesians. He says this is a great mystery.

Eph 5:28  So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.
v. 29  For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church.

See the connection.

Eph 5:30  For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones.
v. 31  "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."
v. 32  This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So what is it about Jesus and His Father, that make them one? I mean they don’t have a sexual union, they are both masculine. How do they be, one? There is one other all encompassing factor….. they are one Spirit! 

You could get a superficial feeling of this, when you have a group of men in the army, let’s say the navy seals or somebody. They are so precisely trained to do one job together, that 6 of them function as one, see. They are multiple individuals, but function as one. We call it, I think it’s Latin, Esprit de corps….. the spirit of the corps, the group. That’s what Jesus Christ and God His Father have, they have a lot of Esprit de corps. They are one Spirit, it’s the same spirit and it’s the same spirit of perfection wisdom and knowledge, love and power. Same Spirit! How could they both have that and not be God?  But there is only one Spirit. 

Wherever God gives His spirit in this room, it’s all the same spirit. Those of us who have that spirit, have a certain Esprit de corps with one another. Now we don’t do it as well, I realize that and some of us are virtually strangers. But if we can talk to each other for an hour or so and know that we have that bond. You would trust me and I would trust you anywhere. Why? Because you have the spirit of God. 

John,

You are correct there is only one God, however the Father and Jesus are not one and the same being. They are two seperate beings who are one in the same sense that a husband and wife are two separate beings who make up one flesh. Jesus and the Father share the same spirit and mind, but they are not one and the same being. I believe also that the latest paper does not teach that Jesus and his Father are one and the same person, but Jesus was given the name Jehovah by his father whose name is also Jehovah which is transliterated to Jesus as Marques says. I apologize if I misunderstood the points you've been trying to make.

Patrick

onelovedread:
I would have to agree with Marques, because  - Colossians 1: 15 "...Who is the Image of the invisible God, Firstborn of every creature,..." suggests that Jesus was born. And we know that the Father was not.

Dennis Vogel:

--- Quote from: mharrell08 on June 22, 2012, 10:53:49 AM ---I didn't get the impression that Ray was teaching the Father and Jesus were one and the same being. What the paper is basically saying is that Jesus was given the Father's name, Jehovah was transliterated to the name Jesus. Children take their Father's name even to this day and we see where this custom came from.


Hope this helps,

Marques

--- End quote ---

Yes it does help Marques.

All this foolishness makes me wish I never posted the article. I have other things Ray left on his PC that will never see the light of day.

Revilonivek:
Maybe the Father/Son analogy can get confusing when it comes to understanding the difference between The Father and Son.

Scriptures teach this:

John 1:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So technically, God the Father became flesh, representing as a son of the father?

Galatians 4:4-5
King James Version (KJV)
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Philippians 2:6-10
King James Version (KJV)
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Hebrews 2:14-18  14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

John 14:8 -12

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


So basically  maybe... it just means the Father emptied himself by humbling himself, stripping of all reputation and all that represents the Father God but instead, as a human and as the son of God to help others see and follow.  the Son is really the Father come into the flesh? and the God in flesh represent the son, while God the father is God without form? basically, The father sacrificed himself for the world by becoming human? Maybe?

Denise

Marky Mark:
In all of Scripture I do not believe that our Lord Jesus Christ has ever mentioned that he was actually the Father and not the Son. Now for sure Jesus has said that He and the Father are One and thought it not robbery to be equal with God but this is accomplished by the Fathers Holy Spirit indwelling in Jesus,the Fathers Words are of the Father,that's the words that Jesus speaks of,in Oneness of both Father and Son.

Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.   [by a certain abundance of like-minded-ness and intensity]

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me,

But the reason that Jesus and the Father are One is because they have a oneness of Spirit,the Holy Spirit. It is in that unity[oneness] of the Holy Spirit that make up their being One,not the false belief that they are the same exact Supreme deity. There is no witness saying that the Father is the Son and that the Son is the Father,to say that is adding to the Word of God and the outcome to that would be...

Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
 
Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Don't you know that we also are to be one [united], as the Father and Son are One,in the glory of His Holy Spirit,in that holy city and not in the deity of being the Supreme Being of which only God the Father can make claim to. We are to be converted rather into the oneness of the Fathers Spirit, just as Jesus is of One Spirit,in His Father.

Joh 17:21  May they all be one! Even as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, so let them be in us, so that all men may come to have faith that you sent me.
Joh 17:22  And the glory which you have given to me I have given to them, so that they may be one even as we are one;

Jesus has the same name of His Father buy virtue of having the same exact knowledge,authority and character of his Father whom the Father gave,by His Word, that they[Father and Son] may be One,as we will all be one, under the Father, when God is all in all.

Joh 17:11  ...Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Joh 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Hope this helps some.

Peace...Mark

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