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Author Topic: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.  (Read 31670 times)

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Revilonivek

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2012, 10:17:00 AM »

Dennis,


There will be teachers and there will also be students.   They're the babes and little children learning. Think of it that you are helping them grow bit by bit. They will make less and less noises as they learn. They will no longer make noise when they're mature. I am not sorry I asked questions but I am sorry that it caused problems because that is not the intention at all. I was simply trying to connect and learn even if the article was incomplete or not. Its called bible study between babes and the wise ones.

 You can lock it as soon as you post it and maybe let people discuss it in private in one of the forum for members only,  like a bible study. People will wwant to talk abt it regardless if u post it or not.   People waited so long for this article and was ready to burst when you posted it. Lock the incomplete ones in a member only forum or something. 

Just know that I greatly appreciate that what you are doing by sharing great truth about our God. And for that I am grateful. I mean it. It helped me see God in a different light and its awesome.  Really awesome. Thank you.

Denise
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 12:38:44 PM by Revilonivek »
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Cypress

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2012, 02:57:06 PM »

smh  :o
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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2012, 03:00:55 PM »

Denise, you are wanted and you are welcome by me; sometimes you have made me have the patience of Job ;) ,but there is nothing wrong with questioning.  It just gets frustrating sometimes when you ask several questions at once and when someone tries to answer, you do not acknowledge their response and then ask a dozen more questions.  You need to focus so someone can help you better.  If you are referred to an article Ray has written then put forth the effort to read it and acknowledge if you are in agreement or not and then ask another question if you need to.  I know some of this frustration could be because of your disability and communications barriers; I'm sure that makes it tough for you. 

If any member does not agree with what is taught that is O.K. but as per the rules we just ask that you drop that line of discussion so it does not become a point of contention or debate.

If any forum member asks questions we should not be too quick to take a stick to them, try and help them to focus and learn; not just once or twice but as long as you feel you can be helpful.  If they just won't try or only want to cause division the moderators will spot this and deal with it, that is our jobs.  We have many members here that have matured and have learned to deal with other members effectively and have made the moderators job much easier.  For that we are grateful.

Don't give up on us Denise.

Craig
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Marky Mark

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2012, 04:36:46 PM »

Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Pro 6:3 My son, do this now, and deliver yourself when you have come into the hand of your friend; go, humble yourself and make your friend sure.

Psa 69:32 The humble shall see this, and be glad: and your heart shall live that seek God.

Mat 18:2  And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
Mat 18:3  And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:4  Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 18:5  And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.




Peace...Mark
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DougE6

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2012, 04:51:29 PM »

Dave in Tennessee

My spirit soared as I read these words you wrote.."Now I have to preach.  Sorry.  Even if any of us don't 'get' the enigma of God, we're not left without 'instructions'.  The consummate act of all mankind will be to aver (say with full conviction) that Jesus Christ is Lord.  He is my God, if indeed I do what He says.  He is the author and finisher of my faith (look to Him).  He is the Creator and Sustainer of the world.  He is the Word of God.  He is the mediator between God and man.  These things (and many others) don't have NO meaning just because you haven't worked out this family relationship."

Thank you for that testimony of faith, and all those reminders in your post of all the other great things we have learned and are continuing to learn.

I so look for the day the whole world, the whole universe gives Jesus the acclaim and falls into subjection to Him.  Every principality and power, every person from every tribe nation tongue and group.

Apparently it was not Gods desire for Ray to release all that he was thinking about to the world. If it was, then God would of seen fit to have it all finished and done.

So the enigma of God will remain an enigma until we have the spiritual mind to comprehend it. Until then, as we see through a glasss darkly, I ONLY speaking for myself, want to major on pleasing Jesus and doing His will.

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2012, 05:16:10 PM »

I did not see in the paper where Ray said the Father and Son are the same being.

My son and I are one on many issues, but that does not make us the same person. Just because the Father and Son are one on all issues does not make them the same being.

If I missed it, please show me.
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indianabob

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2012, 05:39:53 PM »

Denise,

You note below that you tend to write from the heart and say what is on your mind at the time.
I do much the same and it has led to some misunderstanding on other forums, so I think that I may understand and empathize with your efforts to stimulate responses to your valid questions. All well and good.  :D
Over the years I have found that I do much better and gain better insight into my own needs by taking the time to edit each and every email that I send. I know it may sound like I'm just trying to do a spell check or grammar check so I don't embarrass myself, but it also has benefits for the reader as well. AND I have learned to view my own writing with the critical eyes of readers that I do not know very well and whose cultural background is unfamiliar to me. So rather than respond to an email with a correction to try to say more clearly what I meant, I just try to anticipate how it will read in the mind of a VERY new person on the forum. Because after all there are dozens of new readers every day and it is their tender feelings that Lord Jesus would have us protect from stumbling.  8)

Hoping that these words may be of some benefit, I remain your friend in Christ Indianabob




Gina- I have responded to all of your pms except the one you sent me yesterday. I did not answer that one pm  because it is the copy and paste of what you already wrote to me on this subject and I answered it here instead. What's the point of answering the same thing twice? You're going to read it here too.

I am really frustrated.  I feel like you are blaming me for causing the upset and trouble and wanted me to stop asking for "more". I wasn't asking for more, it was a simply of wanting to know the Father's name and talking about it. Is that too much to ask?  I knew that the article were incomplete. That's common sense. I simply wanted a fulfilling conversation about that article with you all.   I was just simply trying to help talk about the possibilities.  I wanted to get an idea and i wanted other's thoughts on the subject. Nothing official, It is just talk, talk abut things that could mean what it is. Imagine this as if we were all here at a luncheon in person, You would love that kind of talk, it can be beautiful, just talking about the article and what it could mean when it comes to the other enigmas in relation to that article.

What I love about my deaf culture is that we can talk about anything without feeling like we're walking on eggshells all the time. It's like family talking to family. if that makes sense. You don't have to worry about crossing any line- I want  to be able to have a conversation with you all, talking about ray's articles, the bible, and  Keep it all casual and nothing formal. Why can't we all connect like that. After all we are really all family in spirit? I know being on the internet can be diffcult because we can't see the behavior and facial expressions in person.

 I certainly don't want to hurt or offend anyone because that's not me at all. I certainly don't want to start something that's not even there in the first place. We are all here to talk about God's beautiful truths and simply connect. I am really glad Dennis posted that article about God's name, because it confirmed many of my feelings I already have about the subject and I feel more free. If you don't want me to ask, that's fine too. I'll just shut the hell up. You of all people, should understand how that feels, not being able to talk to anyone in your home town, community- your own family about Ray's articles, because they would just mock you and make you feel rildiclious for even bringing it up. or even tell you to shut up simply because you just don't understand God's truths in comparable to their understanding of God's truths.   It's not a good feeling and I understand that very well. That is how you made me feel and that hurt.

God led me here for a reason and I'm glad he did. I love the posts you guys make. It's beautiful and it's enlightening for sure. I did not mean to make Dennis feel regret for posting the article. I am really sorry for that. That was not my intention at all. I was just trying to make a casual conversation wtih you all about the possiblities of what it could mean. I already know what Ray wrote and understood it fine.  It is the deep spirit of the article that's hovering that I am asking about. what it could mean. If that makes sense.

I hate to cause trouble really just because I wanted to know something. I also do not want to have to feel like walking on eggshells every time I ask something.

I know I have alot to overcome when it comes to limiting my questions when I ask. I tend to think it out loud when i type, I tend to blurt it all out and just say, like I said.. its like talking to family more than talking to strangers here. I have to learn that too. Like i said, please be patient with me, with time, I will learn to watch what i type here and tread lightly. I also need to learn to acknowledge the links people send my way  But just know that  I do read them after a link is posted in the topic conversation. Sometimes a conversation in that topic gets carried to a different subject and I didn't want to interrupt and I just stopped responding and just read what they had to say on the subject. sometimes it just answers my question :) Thanks for letting me know what I can improve on. I appreciate it. I will work on that.
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Revilonivek

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2012, 05:42:07 PM »

Dennis-

In earlier conversation, I was only suggesting  what if because The Father and Son has the same name. Jehovah and Jesus.  I assumed maybe they are the same essence of the same being- Father - invisible- The son- flesh version- More like a clone twin of each other that just split. in essence, the same being. if you get my meaning? But Gina pointed out it is more like Father and son family thing, like Smith and son, Jennings and son, Vogel and son, everyone in the same family has the same last name. So whenever we join the Father's family- we carry his name. we become one family with them. Like son come out of the mother, same sense.  I understand that now.

Am i on the right track?


Denise-
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mharrell08

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2012, 06:48:15 PM »

Dennis-

In earlier conversation, I was only suggesting  what if because The Father and Son has the same name. Jehovah and Jesus.  I assumed maybe they are the same essence of the same being- Father - invisible- The son- flesh version- More like a clone twin of each other that just split. in essence, the same being. if you get my meaning? But Gina pointed out it is more like Father and son family thing, like Smith and son, Jennings and son, Vogel and son, everyone in the same family has the same last name. So whenever we join the Father's family- we carry his name. we become one family with them. Like son come out of the mother, same sense.  I understand that now.

Am i on the right track?


Denise-

Yes, I would agree Denise.

Rev 3:12  He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
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eggi

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2012, 10:40:43 PM »

Hi all,

I don't want to upset anyone for what they believe. I too can't see how what Ray wrote in this latest article would lead one to believe that Jesus and the Father are one being. On the contrary, I felt that the article was explaining that they had the same Character. Nothing more than that. Speaking of two or more characters being the same, these must out of necessity be similar characters belonging to TWO (or more) different beings. To say that someone has the same character as himself/herself would be redundant. It doesn't make sense to say: My character is the same as my character.

A while back I read a very good article about the meaning of the word "NAME" in Hebrew. I might have saved it somewhere, but couldn't find it. Basically it said something like Ray said in his article, NAME is closely linked to CHARACTER, especially when it comes to the relationship between the Father and His Son. They HAVE the same character, no doubt. But again, in order to use the words THE SAME referring to similar characters, involves TWO or more entities.

This is just speculation, but I noticed one thing in particular that Ray said about the enigma of God:

Ray's April 2nd 2011 message:

Even Universal Reconciliation becomes an axiomatic certainty and not even debatable when we understand just who "the ONLY TRUE GOD" (John 17:3) really is!

How is it that "universal reconciliation becomes an axiomatic certainty and not even debatable when we understand just who "the ONLY TRUE GOD" really is!" ? I believe this has to do with the FAMILY of GOD, or the DIVINE FAMILY as Ray put it in another study. Isn't this closeness that Jesus has with His Father that makes them ONE GOD, also what will be OURS when we will be ONE FAMILY (ALL INCLUDED) when God is ALL in ALL? This however, doesn't mean that all will be one lump where nobody will be distinguishable from each other.

Just my thoughts. I thank Dennis for putting the article on the site. It was very upbuilding for me, also learning that there is nothing wrong with using the name Jesus, as I have been told in the past 6 months that I am wrong and "pagan" for using.

God bless you all,
Eirik
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John from Kentucky

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2012, 11:24:05 PM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13550.0.html

It seems Ray thought this topic was a tad more complicated than just a Father and Son being one in a family relationship.  If you read the several emails from Ray over the past year and Ray's article on his creed about this nature of God topic, you will begin to see there is much, much more to God.

It's all in the scriptures.  Jesus said He and the Father are one.  But most don't want to believe the scriptures.  So they feel the need to explain away clear scriptures.

However, I believe Kat's post said it best.  We need to study this topic on our own and let the Spirit guide us.

Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit, says the LORD Almighty.  Zech 4:6

Truly, You are a God who hides Himself, O God of Israel, Savior!  Isa 45:15
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mharrell08

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2012, 11:55:11 PM »

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13550.0.html

It seems Ray thought this topic was a tad more complicated than just a Father and Son being one in a family relationship.  If you read the several emails from Ray over the past year and Ray's article on his creed about this nature of God topic, you will begin to see there is much, much more to God.


Actually John, it was being taught from just that perspective: a family. Here is an excerpt from the last bible study Ray held in March 2011 (http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12896.msg113153.html#msg113153):

I’m not suggesting that there are two Gods, I’m saying that the one God said, “let Us,” that's all that I am saying. I’m not saying that there is more than one God. We have all kinds of examples of how that is possible.

I think we should do away or should have done away… well it’s pretty hard to do it now... but we should have never got in the habit of translating in English Yahweh and Elohim and Adonia, we should have never translated it God. God is a pagan heathen title. Why should we call the God of creation after some pagan title? Why should we? After all we know He’s not a pagan god, yet we’re strapped with the idea that the word Elohim is translated the true God and the god of the pagans. God of creation that was Elohim and Mohoc of the Canaanites that was elohim too.

I would have made a distinction. I would have translated it something like this, since we know what God is from other Scriptures and so on. I would have translated it something like this, in the beginning the Almighty Family created the heavens and the earth. What’s wrong with that? To me that’s what God is. Takes care of the ‘one,’ family, takes care of the plural, family has more than one unit.

Or we could say, the Almighty Divine Family, saying let Us make man in Our image. You could throw the word divine or divinity in there, that okay that’s a good word. It takes care of the plurality of the word Elohim. We could call Him the Almighty Divine Family. What’s wrong with that?


To me the pagan title god or in Germany gott, it doesn’t do justice to the God of creation. 

We are familiar with lots of words anyway that are used with a singular pronouns and so on, but consist of multiple units. We speak of the United States of America, United States, plural. One nation under God or it used to be one nation, I don’t know what it is now. One nation, united, states plural. One nation, okay. This isn’t rocket science, it’s not hard to understand.

You can have an orchestra, one orchestra, 150 members. It doesn’t mean since you have more than one you have more than one orchestras? The accusation is, ‘if there is more than one talking then you are saying there is more than one God.’ No I’m not and neither is the Scripture saying that


Ps 2:2  The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and against His Anointed...

Eph 2:19  Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God

2 Cor 6:18  I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.



Excerpt from 'Solving the Enigma of God Part 1' (http://bible-truths.com/enigmaOfGod.htm):

THE NAME HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT

Most Christians have no idea that virtually all of the Old Testament references to "God" or "the LORD-YHWH-Jehovah," are not spoken by God the Father, but by someone else. And just who might that someone else be? We'll get to it.

But I will give you at least one Old Testament Hebrew Scripture which tells us exactly what the name of God the Father is. In the 2nd Psalm we have reference to two individuals: They are "the LORD" and "His Anointed" and "the LORD and My Son."

Psalm 2:2- "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, [Heb: YHWH-Jehovah] and against His Anointed, saying,"

Psalm 2:7-"I will declare the decree: the LORD [Heb: YHWH-Jehovah] hath said unto me, Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten Thee."

Psalm 2:11-"Serve the LORD [Heb: Jehovah] with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son..." (and Psalm 2:12)

In these verses we can clearly identify the Father's name as "Jehovah."

We have Jehovah and His Anointed; Jehovah and His Son; and again Jehovah and His Son. So in these verses at least, Jehovah HAS to be the Father as He is contrasted with His Anointed and with His Son. And so though Jesus never called His Father by the name "Jehovah," it is clear (from Scripture) that Jehovah is His Father's name.



Stating that Jehovah is the name of a Family is not explaining away the scriptures, but in actuality, harmonizing them.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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John from Kentucky

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2012, 12:35:54 AM »

Hello Marques,

No, it does not help at all.  I'm aware with what Ray said at his March 2011 bible study.

It was Ray's emails after that which just amazed me.  I believe the April 2, 2011 may have been the first?  In that one, the third paragraph from the bottom, Ray said that all prior teachings by the churches didn't explain the nature of God.  Ray also said that his paper on the trinity and the origin of Jesus did not explain all the scriptures on this subject either.  From that, I learned Ray was rethinking some of his prior papers and wanted to go into greater detail on the Nature of God.  Here is another email from Ray  that just stunned me and gave me insight into deeper understandings to come.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7500.msg115456.html#msg115456

I had a telephone conversation with Ray in August 2011 on several topics.  I told Ray that what he implied in his recent emails just stunned me.  That I was dumbfounded by their implications.  I also said that I thought many on the Forum would have difficulty with these ideas.  Ray told me that we all would need to change some of our previous understandings.

This thread makes it clear to me that many don't have a clue where Ray was going.  But I found in Ray's article on his creed that he had a conclusion in mind.

The answers are clearly stated in the scriptures.  But most our blinded until the Spirit gives us the understanding.  The first step is to bring together all the scriptures on God, and Jesus, and how they interact.  But without the Spirit, it will be meaningless.

In order not to cause confusion and break the fellowship of the Forum, it will best to drop the subject, and let God guide our way.
One question I have is why God allowed this topic to be brought up by Ray, and then just hang there without a definitive resolution?
Our God is a strange God.  He does do things His own way.   8)
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Kat

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2012, 12:49:12 AM »


Hi eggi,

Quote
Isn't this closeness that Jesus has with His Father that makes them ONE GOD, also what will be OURS when we will be ONE FAMILY (ALL INCLUDED) when God is ALL in ALL? This however, doesn't mean that all will be one lump where nobody will be distinguishable from each other.

Yes that is in the Scripture, "all" created beings that have ever live will one day be one with the Father and the Son, that is the second all in "all in all."

John 17:11 And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as We are one.

John 17:22 And I have given them the glory which You have given Me, that they may be one, even as We are one,

So the Father and Son are in perfect Oneness with each other in Spirit and mind. Jesus had a discussion with the Jews about this.

John 10:30 I and My Father are one.
v. 31  The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
v. 32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from the Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
v. 33  The Jews answered Him, For a good work we stone You not, but for blasphemy; and because that You, being a man, make Yourself God.
v. 34  Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?

Interesting what Christ says there, He is referring to Psalms 82, which actually proves the Salvation of all.

Psa 82:5  They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken.

God is speaking of all people that have ever lived, everybody is in darkness until the Holy Spirit (Christ) is indwelling, "I have come as a Light into the world, so that whoever believes on Me should not remain in darkness" (Joh 12:46).

Psa 82:6  I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
v. 7  Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
v. 8  Arise, O God, judge the earth; For You shalt inherit all the nations.

Jehovah here in Psalms states that ALL will be sons of the Most High God and so shows the salvation of ALL. In John 10 Jesus told the Jews He and the Father were one and when they wanted to stone Him for that, He reminded them of what was said in Psalms (by Him), He is one with the Father and that all will be sons of and therefore one with God.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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mharrell08

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2012, 01:10:04 AM »

Hello Marques,

No, it does not help at all.  I'm aware with what Ray said at his March 2011 bible study.

It was Ray's emails after that which just amazed me.  I believe the April 2, 2011 may have been the first?  In that one, the third paragraph from the bottom, Ray said that all prior teachings by the churches didn't explain the nature of God.  Ray also said that his paper on the trinity and the origin of Jesus did not explain all the scriptures on this subject either.  From that, I learned Ray was rethinking some of his prior papers and wanted to go into greater detail on the Nature of God.  Here is another email from Ray  that just stunned me and gave me insight into deeper understandings to come.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7500.msg115456.html#msg115456

I had a telephone conversation with Ray in August 2011 on several topics.  I told Ray that what he implied in his recent emails just stunned me.  That I was dumbfounded by their implications.  I also said that I thought many on the Forum would have difficulty with these ideas.  Ray told me that we all would need to change some of our previous understandings.

This thread makes it clear to me that many don't have a clue where Ray was going.  But I found in Ray's article on his creed that he had a conclusion in mind.

The answers are clearly stated in the scriptures.  But most our blinded until the Spirit gives us the understanding.  The first step is to bring together all the scriptures on God, and Jesus, and how they interact.  But without the Spirit, it will be meaningless.

In order not to cause confusion and break the fellowship of the Forum, it will best to drop the subject, and let God guide our way.
One question I have is why God allowed this topic to be brought up by Ray, and then just hang there without a definitive resolution?
Our God is a strange God.  He does do things His own way.   8)


John you continue to reference past emails and comments from Ray, but you do not post any of them...you don't specify any particular comment. That type of behavior is what leads to confusion.

Even the link you provided has a quote from Ray speaking of the Father and Jesus as 'the two of them'. Yet you continue to imply that Ray was teaching that the Father and Jesus are the same being/entity.


Here were your first comments in this thread:

I no longer believe that Jesus is separate from the Father.  The scriptures teach that the Father is God.  The scriptures teach that Jesus is God.  If the Father and Jesus are separate, then you have two separate Gods.  However, the scriptures teach that there is only One God.

Jesus spoke the Truth when He said, "I (Jesus) and the Father are One."

While you no longer believe such, you continue to insist Ray was teaching this as well yet provide no specific comment or quote. You state that Ray was 'changing' his line of thinking, when in reality, Ray has been teaching for years that the term 'God' is more of a title than what you would actually call the Father or the Son.

It's One God because it is One Family, not one single being. This line of thinking you are taking on is the same as the trinity...it closes humanity out instead of what the scriptures teach that God is an ever expanding family. That was the essential message of the Trinity paper and that message has not changed, Ray has only been expanding on this topic.

God never changes course with His message through His messengers, He always expands upon what was already being taught. For example, Jesus stated He did not come to 'change' the law but to fulfill. Paul stated the same that he knew the law was spiritual...it was always spiritual, but Israel did not have the understanding to follow it. The message never changed, God just expanded upon that same message.


Quote
One question I have is why God allowed this topic to be brought up by Ray, and then just hang there without a definitive resolution?
Our God is a strange God.  He does do things His own way.   8)

1 Cor 11:19  For there must also be factions [Gk. 'heresies'] among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.

Because we are all sheep but only a few will follow His Voice [John 10:27].


Marques
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Kat

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2012, 01:28:24 AM »


Hi John,

Quote
One question I have is why God allowed this topic to be brought up by Ray, and then just hang there without a definitive resolution?

Because God did bring this questions out through His servant, Ray, as we all listened to Ray and these things that Ray brought up about this enigma, very obviously, stirred up a lot of thought and questions on this. But God does not depend on any man and He can/will easily bring the answers to this question to any of us whenever He chooses.

I think we are missing the obvious on this inexplicable relationship that the Father and the Son have in oneness... that is the enigma! It's not that the Father and Son are the same being, it's that the connection that they do have is near (if not totally) impossible for a human mind to comprehend.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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John9362

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2012, 01:58:17 AM »

This paper was easy and simple to understand. Ray wrote all his papers that way  :)

As I've said many times before, one must read the BT website many times !!  >:(

I will pray for all the moderators, for God to bless you with patience and strength. ;)

I've been a member here for over 6 years ...........believe me ALL the good stuff is on the BT website.........the more one reads it the more blessed one gets !!  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 02:02:00 AM by John9362 »
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Gina

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2012, 02:05:38 AM »


The relationship between the Father and Son IS completely impossible for a human mind to comprehend.

James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.

Thanks James!
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Gina

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2012, 03:09:16 AM »

1 Cor 11:19  For there must also be factions [Gk. 'heresies'] among you, that those who are approved may be recognized among you.

What's the answer:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Thanks, Paul and Timothy.  Err ... I mean the Comforter.  :)

John 10:24-26 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long do you make us to doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.

Jesus answered them, I told you, and you believed NOT: the works that I do in my Father's name, THEY [the works] bear witness of me.

But you believe not, because you are NOT of My sheep, as I said unto you.


[I guess they were somebody's sheep, but NOT his.  It's like this:  Sssssllllaaappp~!  One down, and however many ... or few  ;) to go~]

John 10:27-30: My sheep hear MY voice [ they don't hear (believe) anyone else's voice, only MY voice], and I know them, and they follow ME [they don't follow anyone else, only ME]: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of MY hand.  My Father, who gave them to Me [He didn't give them to anyone else, but Me], is GREATER than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father's hand.  I and my Father are one.

"I and my Father are one and My Father ... is GREATER than all.

Wow, that is so cool.  I love that.



« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 03:26:41 AM by Gina »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2012, 03:15:17 AM »

Marques,

You said I referenced Ray's emails but never posted them.  Actually, I posted two of them above.  Here is a third one.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12934.0.html

Take a look at the third paragraph from the bottom.  Ray says, and I quote, "Nor does my paper on the trinity or the origin of Jesus explain and harmonize all of these Scriptures.  I am seeing glimpses of a greater understanding of the relationship between the Father and the Son, but my understanding is yet far from complete."

I understood from Ray's statement that his prior understanding on this nature of God matter was incomplete and more information would be forthcoming.

Also, I do not believe that the Father and Jesus are the same being.  Nor do I think Ray thought so either.  I don't think the word being is even in the scriptures much less using that term in reference to the Father.

I said I do not believe Jesus is separate from the Father.  Because, if they are separate then you have two separate Gods.  The scriptures teach there is One God.

The scriptures use the analogy of One Body.  A head and a right arm are different, but they are part of One Body.  They are not separate. 

Please do not assume I am saying something which I did not say.  Just ask me if you are unsure.

John

 
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