> General Discussions
New article: "Solving The Enigma Of God" just posted.
Dennis Vogel:
I did not see in the paper where Ray said the Father and Son are the same being.
My son and I are one on many issues, but that does not make us the same person. Just because the Father and Son are one on all issues does not make them the same being.
If I missed it, please show me.
indianabob:
Denise,
You note below that you tend to write from the heart and say what is on your mind at the time.
I do much the same and it has led to some misunderstanding on other forums, so I think that I may understand and empathize with your efforts to stimulate responses to your valid questions. All well and good. :D
Over the years I have found that I do much better and gain better insight into my own needs by taking the time to edit each and every email that I send. I know it may sound like I'm just trying to do a spell check or grammar check so I don't embarrass myself, but it also has benefits for the reader as well. AND I have learned to view my own writing with the critical eyes of readers that I do not know very well and whose cultural background is unfamiliar to me. So rather than respond to an email with a correction to try to say more clearly what I meant, I just try to anticipate how it will read in the mind of a VERY new person on the forum. Because after all there are dozens of new readers every day and it is their tender feelings that Lord Jesus would have us protect from stumbling. 8)
Hoping that these words may be of some benefit, I remain your friend in Christ Indianabob
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on June 23, 2012, 01:00:56 PM ---Gina- I have responded to all of your pms except the one you sent me yesterday. I did not answer that one pm because it is the copy and paste of what you already wrote to me on this subject and I answered it here instead. What's the point of answering the same thing twice? You're going to read it here too.
I am really frustrated. I feel like you are blaming me for causing the upset and trouble and wanted me to stop asking for "more". I wasn't asking for more, it was a simply of wanting to know the Father's name and talking about it. Is that too much to ask? I knew that the article were incomplete. That's common sense. I simply wanted a fulfilling conversation about that article with you all. I was just simply trying to help talk about the possibilities. I wanted to get an idea and i wanted other's thoughts on the subject. Nothing official, It is just talk, talk abut things that could mean what it is. Imagine this as if we were all here at a luncheon in person, You would love that kind of talk, it can be beautiful, just talking about the article and what it could mean when it comes to the other enigmas in relation to that article.
What I love about my deaf culture is that we can talk about anything without feeling like we're walking on eggshells all the time. It's like family talking to family. if that makes sense. You don't have to worry about crossing any line- I want to be able to have a conversation with you all, talking about ray's articles, the bible, and Keep it all casual and nothing formal. Why can't we all connect like that. After all we are really all family in spirit? I know being on the internet can be diffcult because we can't see the behavior and facial expressions in person.
I certainly don't want to hurt or offend anyone because that's not me at all. I certainly don't want to start something that's not even there in the first place. We are all here to talk about God's beautiful truths and simply connect. I am really glad Dennis posted that article about God's name, because it confirmed many of my feelings I already have about the subject and I feel more free. If you don't want me to ask, that's fine too. I'll just shut the hell up. You of all people, should understand how that feels, not being able to talk to anyone in your home town, community- your own family about Ray's articles, because they would just mock you and make you feel rildiclious for even bringing it up. or even tell you to shut up simply because you just don't understand God's truths in comparable to their understanding of God's truths. It's not a good feeling and I understand that very well. That is how you made me feel and that hurt.
God led me here for a reason and I'm glad he did. I love the posts you guys make. It's beautiful and it's enlightening for sure. I did not mean to make Dennis feel regret for posting the article. I am really sorry for that. That was not my intention at all. I was just trying to make a casual conversation wtih you all about the possiblities of what it could mean. I already know what Ray wrote and understood it fine. It is the deep spirit of the article that's hovering that I am asking about. what it could mean. If that makes sense.
I hate to cause trouble really just because I wanted to know something. I also do not want to have to feel like walking on eggshells every time I ask something.
I know I have alot to overcome when it comes to limiting my questions when I ask. I tend to think it out loud when i type, I tend to blurt it all out and just say, like I said.. its like talking to family more than talking to strangers here. I have to learn that too. Like i said, please be patient with me, with time, I will learn to watch what i type here and tread lightly. I also need to learn to acknowledge the links people send my way But just know that I do read them after a link is posted in the topic conversation. Sometimes a conversation in that topic gets carried to a different subject and I didn't want to interrupt and I just stopped responding and just read what they had to say on the subject. sometimes it just answers my question :) Thanks for letting me know what I can improve on. I appreciate it. I will work on that.
--- End quote ---
Revilonivek:
Dennis-
In earlier conversation, I was only suggesting what if because The Father and Son has the same name. Jehovah and Jesus. I assumed maybe they are the same essence of the same being- Father - invisible- The son- flesh version- More like a clone twin of each other that just split. in essence, the same being. if you get my meaning? But Gina pointed out it is more like Father and son family thing, like Smith and son, Jennings and son, Vogel and son, everyone in the same family has the same last name. So whenever we join the Father's family- we carry his name. we become one family with them. Like son come out of the mother, same sense. I understand that now.
Am i on the right track?
Denise-
mharrell08:
--- Quote from: Revilonivek on June 23, 2012, 02:42:07 PM ---Dennis-
In earlier conversation, I was only suggesting what if because The Father and Son has the same name. Jehovah and Jesus. I assumed maybe they are the same essence of the same being- Father - invisible- The son- flesh version- More like a clone twin of each other that just split. in essence, the same being. if you get my meaning? But Gina pointed out it is more like Father and son family thing, like Smith and son, Jennings and son, Vogel and son, everyone in the same family has the same last name. So whenever we join the Father's family- we carry his name. we become one family with them. Like son come out of the mother, same sense. I understand that now.
Am i on the right track?
Denise-
--- End quote ---
Yes, I would agree Denise.
Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
eggi:
Hi all,
I don't want to upset anyone for what they believe. I too can't see how what Ray wrote in this latest article would lead one to believe that Jesus and the Father are one being. On the contrary, I felt that the article was explaining that they had the same Character. Nothing more than that. Speaking of two or more characters being the same, these must out of necessity be similar characters belonging to TWO (or more) different beings. To say that someone has the same character as himself/herself would be redundant. It doesn't make sense to say: My character is the same as my character.
A while back I read a very good article about the meaning of the word "NAME" in Hebrew. I might have saved it somewhere, but couldn't find it. Basically it said something like Ray said in his article, NAME is closely linked to CHARACTER, especially when it comes to the relationship between the Father and His Son. They HAVE the same character, no doubt. But again, in order to use the words THE SAME referring to similar characters, involves TWO or more entities.
This is just speculation, but I noticed one thing in particular that Ray said about the enigma of God:
Ray's April 2nd 2011 message:
Even Universal Reconciliation becomes an axiomatic certainty and not even debatable when we understand just who "the ONLY TRUE GOD" (John 17:3) really is!
How is it that "universal reconciliation becomes an axiomatic certainty and not even debatable when we understand just who "the ONLY TRUE GOD" really is!" ? I believe this has to do with the FAMILY of GOD, or the DIVINE FAMILY as Ray put it in another study. Isn't this closeness that Jesus has with His Father that makes them ONE GOD, also what will be OURS when we will be ONE FAMILY (ALL INCLUDED) when God is ALL in ALL? This however, doesn't mean that all will be one lump where nobody will be distinguishable from each other.
Just my thoughts. I thank Dennis for putting the article on the site. It was very upbuilding for me, also learning that there is nothing wrong with using the name Jesus, as I have been told in the past 6 months that I am wrong and "pagan" for using.
God bless you all,
Eirik
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