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Author Topic: 144,000?  (Read 11582 times)

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newgene87

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144,000?
« on: July 01, 2012, 05:13:43 PM »

so i'm wondering because i used to think about this years ago when i first read the book of revelations. Did Ray ever expound on the 144,000 mentioned in Revelations???

"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. " (Rev 14:3)

and what are the spiritual matches with the concept of this scripture and what is the truth of it? and why "hundred and forth and four thousand?? can anyone help me? thanks :) :)
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 05:31:56 PM »

Hello,newgene87
Here is a email  posted to the cite.

Thank God for your site and the Truth that flows from it. Just so you know, I have read nearly everything at this point, including emails.

    But...have a quick question:

    Are only the 144,000 both called and chosen in their lifetime to rule with Christ? Can you be called and chosen and not be one of the Elect 144,000?. Am I to understand the 144,000 will be the kings and priests with Christ while the saved in this lifetime, i.e. called and chosen but not elect are those who merely populate the millennial kingdom?

    The reason I ask is that I feel called and chosen. Whether or not thats the case, I at least feel saved in this lifetime, but I can very easily imagine 144,000 individuals that I couldnt hold a candle to when it comes to their walk with the Lord. So where do I end up and others like me during Christs thousand year reign, or after that

    Ill keep reading J

    Thanks again,

I also believe that the word thousand in the Hebrew is in plural form=thousands.So regardless of your beliefs system God has a order 1-Cor 15-23!
   

     
 
    The book of Revelation is a book "signified" with SYMBOLS.  And the words of Jesus are "SPIRIT" (I John 6:63).  And it is filled with signs and metaphors. None of these things are literal.

    The Seven Churches are not literally seven.  The 24 elders are not literally 24. The 144,000 are not literally 144,000.  The 1000 years is not literally a thousand years. These are ALL symbols. The Lake of Fire is neither a literal lake or literal fire.

    And your statement: "the 'saved in this lifetime, i.e. called and chosen but not elect' are those who merely populate the millennial kingdom" is bogus. There is no such thing as "called AND chosen, but NOT elect."  The called and chosen ARE THE ELECT.  I wish that I could tell you that you are among the chosen elect, but that is something that I do not know. God knows those who are His, but no one else does. Therefore, it behooves us all to do diligence in our walk of
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 05:39:00 PM »

Sorry,

I messed up on the first response were I put info on the page...... the quote......I also believe that the word thousand in the Hebrew is in plural form=thousands.So regardless of your beliefs system God has a order 1-Cor 15-23...is mine!NOT Rays. Sorry did not know how to correct original page.
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 05:43:37 PM »

Also,its Site...not cite...hehe..To much Fried Chicken..lol.
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newgene87

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 06:18:31 PM »

lol. gotcha. but as far as it being spiritual; i pretty know that. I take that tool of application on anything i read in the scripture. but is there an explanation of the meaning of it?
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 07:01:01 PM »

If anyone lacks wisdom (understanding), let him ask of God who gives abundantly (ABUNDANTLY!!) and without fault finding. 

Hey, pardon me for just jumpin in here.  I don't claim to know the answer, but after all I've read, I'm thinking I'm not far off.  It's really not that hard; but that's easy for me to say--I've read most of everything Ray has written.  And God has given me a little insight.  I'm not here to brag.  You can learn this new "song" too. :)

"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. " (Rev 14:3)

Consider that it's a NEW "song."  And it's not a literal song either, right?  It's symbolism here at its finest. 

Next, consider that it's something NEW:

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (Eze 36:26)

The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; you will be
called by a NEW "name" that the mouth of the LORD will bestow (Isa 62:2)

Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a NEW "name" written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.

Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the NAME of my God and the name of the city of my God, the NEW Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 19:12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a NAME written on him that no one knows but he himself.  [JESUS/JEHOVAH =  MIGHTY GOD, WONDERFUL, COUNSELOR, EVERLASTING FATHER.  As Denise says... get it? ;)]

Revelation 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS [In other words:  COUNSELOR, MIGHTY GOD, WONDERFUL, EVERLASTING FATHER]


When you think NEW song, don't think "song"; think Jesus Christ and the works that He did which came from the Father.  That's the NEW song.

It's really not that hard or esoteric.  It's just that it freaks people out to think that they're NAME isn't a name but a SPIRIT OF POWER AND AUTHORITY.  Don't let it freak you out.  It won't go to your head!  You wont' be some puffed up bag of wind.  It's all very real, but God will cause those He gives his power to be able to handle it.  It's something God wants to give to whomever he wants to give it to.  And it's not because of anything great about them -- like they could have done something to earn it, though they are unique and special to God - they are no better or worse than anyone else.  [Ref. Why Does God Love You?]

It's hard to understand because the church has caused people to fear power as if God hasn't said:  This far shall you come and no farther.  As if God the Father is not sovereign. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 12:47:42 AM by Gina »
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 07:08:07 PM »

p.s.  For instance, look at Ray and the mods -- God's given them power too.  Check out how humble they are with it.  They're not all abusive with it. They're very kind, but powerful?  Yep.  And we members know it.  But they're in awe (fear/respect) of God -- they don't let that power go to their heads (like that Nebacadnezzer -- whatever the heck his name is).  God has them right where He wants them for to serve us and help us grow spiritually.  They're humble about it.  That's how God has raises up (exalts) the humble people.  He exalts them to serve (I did not come to be served, but to serve.)  The mods are a kind of example of that kind of service.
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2012, 07:20:55 PM »

Hey,Gina
Your quote:When you think NEW song, don't think "song"; think Jesus Christ and the works that He did which came from the Father.  That's the NEW song.

So the new song We sang is the truth of the Gospel.When ...WE=Christ...proclaim the truth of the Gospel to who ever..... WE are singing the song correct?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 07:30:56 PM »

Somewhere Ray says something like this:

Psa 50:10  For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

You can look at this as a figure of speech because there are many more than a thousand hills in the world, and God owns them all.

Same for the 144,000. A figure of speech. Could be any number, but it appears to be a lot more than a few.
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 07:33:56 PM »

Something like that.  It's more of an obeying Christ.  It's having the "coat of many colors" that Ray spoke of.  It's like that.  Think of Joseph and how humbled he was by God and how God raised him up to help his people escape the famine.  It's like that.  It's not just proclaiming the Gospel; it's not just being hearers only, but doers.  It's about doing the right thing even if it means that some are going to hate you for a while.  I don't know if you have kids, but sometimes you have to exert power over your children (go clean your room, etc.) and they huff and puff and say all manner of evil against you.  ;D  (You're a bad mommy, I don't like you!  I don't want to.  blah, blah, blah)  It's being not afraid of having people not be "in love with you" in the instant because you know they'll be thanking their "lucky stars" when all is said and done.

It's never about pride or the flesh.  It's about obeying God and dying to self, for the sake of humanity.  It's about doing what's best for you and the group, even when the group doesn't like what you say or do (because they don't understand).

It's not about getting praise from men, but from God.  it's not about getting glory for yourself, but bringing Glory to God.

First, let me state my position succinctly:

1.      Whatever we teach must "glorify" God.

"Glory to God in the highest ... " (Lk. 2:14).
 
" ... that in all God may be glorified ... " (I Pt. 4:11).

2.      Whatever we teach must not detract one iota from Christ's sacrifice for all humanity.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time." (I Tim. 2:5-6)

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of all men [mankind], specially [not exclusively] to those that believe. These things command and teach." (I Tim. 4:10-11)


http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm

Okay, I'm gonna shut up now, because I may have said too much.  Ask God to help you obey Him and keep you from pride and arrogance because you love Him FIRST.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 07:37:15 PM by Gina »
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 09:00:16 PM »

Hey Gina
And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. "Rev-14-3.

The They is the Elect.Which is The body.... the Christ...... Correct. So whatever Christ does is what the Elect does correct.

I ask this because you said:
When you think NEW song, don't think "song"; think Jesus Christ and the works that He did which came from the Father.  That's the NEW song

So when WE....The Christ...proclaim,and do the works of the Father we are singing the song...Right ?  wrong?
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 09:13:32 PM »

Is that alright with you?
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 09:15:46 PM »

If its the truth...Is that the truth to you are No?
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 09:18:58 PM »

Are you now going to shove me off the 10-story bridge?  ;)
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 09:29:12 PM »

I could not do that to my precious Sister.Just trying to make sure of what I have believed and seen through Scriptuers.I have no idols
that I want to hang on to.Left that  3-years ago.Nor do I want to get in a peeing contest with anyone.But I do want to know truth and that comes by asking questions and of Course the Spirit of God!So It seems you are put out with your brother in some ways?Thats why I ask these questions to see if your dying to self...lol...Relax Sister love ya!
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2012, 09:43:19 PM »

ha!  Are you satisfied that I'm dying to self?  Don't be too quick to judge now.  Take all the time you need to figure it out.  And if you have a problem with me be sure and let me know.
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2012, 09:54:08 PM »

Gina, I know your dying to self Sister. Thats God plan for eventually all man kind.As per my P.m. I sorry I have Offended you.I Will make sure it want happen again.And as far as having a problem with you.You would know if I did .Trust me!
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 09:59:45 PM »

Okie dokie....  Like I said before, I'm gonna shut up now.  Now, I know for sure you like the sound of that!   ;D ;)
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the truth

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 10:03:37 PM »

God Bless!
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Gina

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2012, 10:23:58 PM »

God Bless, Jerry.

And by the way, I never meant to suggest that you were prideful or arrogant, I swear -- I don't think you're that way at all.  If anyone has a problem with that it's ME!  I don't even know why I said that to be honest.  I say the strangest things sometimes and I don't know where they come from!  I'm weird.  I can't believe I of all people said, "ask God to keep you from pride and arrogance and to help you obey him, Jerry."  I'm even shocked that I of all people would say that.   That was meant for me.  Not anyone else.
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