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144,000?
Gina:
If anyone lacks wisdom (understanding), let him ask of God who gives abundantly (ABUNDANTLY!!) and without fault finding.
Hey, pardon me for just jumpin in here. I don't claim to know the answer, but after all I've read, I'm thinking I'm not far off. It's really not that hard; but that's easy for me to say--I've read most of everything Ray has written. And God has given me a little insight. I'm not here to brag. You can learn this new "song" too. :)
"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. " (Rev 14:3)
Consider that it's a NEW "song." And it's not a literal song either, right? It's symbolism here at its finest.
Next, consider that it's something NEW:
And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (Eze 36:26)
The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; you will be
called by a NEW "name" that the mouth of the LORD will bestow (Isa 62:2)
Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a NEW "name" written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it.
Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the NAME of my God and the name of the city of my God, the NEW Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.
Revelation 19:12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a NAME written on him that no one knows but he himself. [JESUS/JEHOVAH = MIGHTY GOD, WONDERFUL, COUNSELOR, EVERLASTING FATHER. As Denise says... get it? ;)]
Revelation 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS [In other words: COUNSELOR, MIGHTY GOD, WONDERFUL, EVERLASTING FATHER]
’
When you think NEW song, don't think "song"; think Jesus Christ and the works that He did which came from the Father. That's the NEW song.
It's really not that hard or esoteric. It's just that it freaks people out to think that they're NAME isn't a name but a SPIRIT OF POWER AND AUTHORITY. Don't let it freak you out. It won't go to your head! You wont' be some puffed up bag of wind. It's all very real, but God will cause those He gives his power to be able to handle it. It's something God wants to give to whomever he wants to give it to. And it's not because of anything great about them -- like they could have done something to earn it, though they are unique and special to God - they are no better or worse than anyone else. [Ref. Why Does God Love You?]
It's hard to understand because the church has caused people to fear power as if God hasn't said: This far shall you come and no farther. As if God the Father is not sovereign.
Gina:
p.s. For instance, look at Ray and the mods -- God's given them power too. Check out how humble they are with it. They're not all abusive with it. They're very kind, but powerful? Yep. And we members know it. But they're in awe (fear/respect) of God -- they don't let that power go to their heads (like that Nebacadnezzer -- whatever the heck his name is). God has them right where He wants them for to serve us and help us grow spiritually. They're humble about it. That's how God has raises up (exalts) the humble people. He exalts them to serve (I did not come to be served, but to serve.) The mods are a kind of example of that kind of service.
the truth:
Hey,Gina
Your quote:When you think NEW song, don't think "song"; think Jesus Christ and the works that He did which came from the Father. That's the NEW song.
So the new song We sang is the truth of the Gospel.When ...WE=Christ...proclaim the truth of the Gospel to who ever..... WE are singing the song correct?
Dennis Vogel:
Somewhere Ray says something like this:
Psa 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.
You can look at this as a figure of speech because there are many more than a thousand hills in the world, and God owns them all.
Same for the 144,000. A figure of speech. Could be any number, but it appears to be a lot more than a few.
Gina:
Something like that. It's more of an obeying Christ. It's having the "coat of many colors" that Ray spoke of. It's like that. Think of Joseph and how humbled he was by God and how God raised him up to help his people escape the famine. It's like that. It's not just proclaiming the Gospel; it's not just being hearers only, but doers. It's about doing the right thing even if it means that some are going to hate you for a while. I don't know if you have kids, but sometimes you have to exert power over your children (go clean your room, etc.) and they huff and puff and say all manner of evil against you. ;D (You're a bad mommy, I don't like you! I don't want to. blah, blah, blah) It's being not afraid of having people not be "in love with you" in the instant because you know they'll be thanking their "lucky stars" when all is said and done.
It's never about pride or the flesh. It's about obeying God and dying to self, for the sake of humanity. It's about doing what's best for you and the group, even when the group doesn't like what you say or do (because they don't understand).
It's not about getting praise from men, but from God. it's not about getting glory for yourself, but bringing Glory to God.
First, let me state my position succinctly:
1. Whatever we teach must "glorify" God.
"Glory to God in the highest ... " (Lk. 2:14).
" ... that in all God may be glorified ... " (I Pt. 4:11).
2. Whatever we teach must not detract one iota from Christ's sacrifice for all humanity.
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men the man Christ Jesus; Who gave Himself a ransom for all to be testified in due time." (I Tim. 2:5-6)
"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of all men [mankind], specially [not exclusively] to those that believe. These things command and teach." (I Tim. 4:10-11)
http://bible-truths.com/kennedy2.htm
Okay, I'm gonna shut up now, because I may have said too much. Ask God to help you obey Him and keep you from pride and arrogance because you love Him FIRST.
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