> General Discussions
Birthdays Celebrations vs paganism where is the thin line?
Foxx:
--- Quote from: eggi on July 05, 2012, 01:20:58 PM ---Hi all, writing from vacation in Sicily. We just celebrated a birthday here. Not one who was present thought that blowing out the candles would cause some pagan gods to grant a wish. Nobody thought that the celebration was in praise of a pagan fertility god. Actually apart from the cake and the candles and gifts which actually can help make a very nice atmosphere there was nothing different about this party compared to an ordinary afternoon visit. We sang the birthday song. I think it's alright to do this. IF someone actually celebrated their birthday in praise of a pagan god I would think differently about it. This is the same as Christmas, Easter etc. All pagan, but for some people these are the only times of the year when they think about God. What's wrong with that? Should I be holier-than-thou and judge people and separate from family and friends because of my self-perceived holiness? Kill someone's faith before it's even started?
God bless you,
Eirik
Tanti auguri a te/Happy Birthday
--- End quote ---
I hope the birthday was a good one Erik, I'm sure it was enjoyable for all. I'll make one more comment regarding this topic and the I'll be on my way.
I'm glad to know that no wishes were made to pagan gods, I doubt anyone does anymore, however the thread was asking about birthdays and paganism so I gave my answer. I never condemned birthdays or birthday cake or candles. Honestly I don't know if my next birthday will have cake and candles, stepping away from time old traditions is awkward but this year I didn't celebrate easter, it was first time I literally did nothing for the holiday. I haven't acknowledged Halloween and I don't think I should.
You're right Christmas and other holidays are sometimes the only point in the year when some people think about God but it is not being "holier than thou" if I choose not to celebrate them. All the religious holidays (with exception to perhaps Jewish based ones) are for US not for God. God does not care if I don't celebrate Christmas or Easter. These are not holidays ordained by God. If someone does not wish to participate in Easter or Christmas and a person asks why its a simple explanation. I have a hard time believing if there is a person in your life who is genuinely interested in understanding more about God and they want to hear from you, I'm sure Christimas isn't the only time you can talk to them about it. Not participating in holidays does not mean I judge those who do. I approach it the same way I do all other things: if they are interested in why I tell them, if not then I don't. I don't discuss or challenge people much anymore regarding what I have learned from Ray's page because, as he has said, you can tell someone but if they aren't ready to hear there is no point.
Dave in Tenn:
I searched for quite a while, but since my 'search' parameters include most of the forum, there are a lot of 'birthday' mentions to sort through. Still, I found this. And I'll stop there as I need to go make me an ark of gopher wood.
Ray, I have found only two occasions where the celebration of birthdays are listed in the bible. The Old Testament talks about not following the traditions of the pagans and so also does the New Testament. Since my research shows that the history of birthday celebrations is definitely a pagan tradition, how do you view it.
DA
Dear DA: Keeping account of one's age and year of birth is mentioned dozens and dozens of times in Scriptures. No, it does not use such terms as "birthday parties," but it may well been a day of recognition and celebration.
God be with you,
Ray
Dave in Tenn:
I'm pretty sure DA above had his/her mind made up when he/she shot the question off to Ray. Ray was wise enough not to take the bait, imo.
These kinds of threads have a long history of going 'south'. IF we can keep to the purpose of the forum, we can probably leave it open. If not, then we can't.
Dave in Tenn:
Here's the email reply Gina alluded to above:
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2759.0.html
Gina:
--- Quote ---Gal 4:10 You pay special attention to certain days, months, seasons, and years.
Gal 4:11 I am worried about you! Can it be that all my work for you has been for nothing?
Gal 4:12 I beg you, my friends, be like me. After all, I am like you. You have not done me any wrong.
Mat 15:6 And [thus] ye make void the word of God, for the sake of your tradition.
--- End quote ---
Paul is speaking of those "traditions" put in place to BURDEN people. This is not talking about a simple celebration. If that were the case, then Jesus would have never celebrated in the wedding at Cana.
--- Quote --- Job 1:4 And his sons used to go and hold a feast in the house of each one upon his day; and they would send and invite their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt-offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said: 'It may be that my sons have sinned, and blasphemed God in their hearts.' Thus did Job continually.
Job 3:1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
Job 3:2 And Job spake, and said,
Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and while Job was inspired to say all of that, don't you remember?
Job 38
1 Then Jehovah answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel By words without knowledge?
scripture, scripture, scripture...
Job 42
1 Then Job answered Jehovah, and said,
2 I know that thou canst do all things, And that no purpose of thine can be restrained.
3 Who is this that hideth counsel without knowledge? Therefore have I uttered that which I understood NOT, Things too wonderful for me, which I knew NOT.
4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak; I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
5 I had heard of thee by the hearing of the ear; But now mine eye seeth thee:
6 Wherefore I abhor myself , And repent in dust and ashes.
--- Quote ---Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
--- End quote ---
That has nothing to do with celebrating a birthday or any other holiday. This has to do with not being honest with God about who and what you are. It's about pretending you're pristine, when in reality you're full of ... dead men's bones. ;)
--- Quote ---Mar 7:8 Having, dismissed, the commandment, of God, ye, hold fast, the tradition, of men.
Mar 7:9 And he was saying to them—Well, do ye set aside the commandment of God, that, your own tradition, ye may observe;
--- End quote ---
Again, this is speaking of those LAWS that the pharisees and scribes put in place to BURDEN people and keep them tied in knots, this is not speaking of a birthday celebration.
--- Quote ---1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
--- End quote ---
::)
--- Quote ---Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Gal 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
--- End quote ---
Again, this is speaking of those who chose to turn their backs on Christ and trample His blood by observing the LAWS (ordinances are LAWS! something they [felt they] MUST obey to be right with God) that the pharisees and scribes put in place to BURDEN people and keep them tied in knots, this is not speaking of a birthday celebration.
--- Quote ---Ecc 7:1 Better a name, than precious ointment,—and the day of death, than the day of one’s birth.
Ecc 7:2 Better to go to the house of mourning, than to go to the house of banqueting, for, that, is the end of all men,—and, the living, should take it to his heart.
--- End quote ---
This is speaking of a person's reputation and of their birth and death. This is not talking about not celebrating birthdays. And having looked at that more closely, I find that prophetically comforting actually, seeing how I am terrified of dying.
Saying one thing is better than another doesn't mean it'd be UNLAWFUL to attend a banquet or be BORN. LOL ! I mean, I've heard people joke : "Well, pardon me for living." But it's a joke party people. It's sarcasm at its finest.
I REST this case.
Peace. :)
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