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Controversial topic (Enter at your own risk)
Gina:
--- Quote from: Kenneth Clark on July 10, 2012, 11:56:17 PM ---maybe we are sold from the beginning...adam
that dang woman eve bought the fruit and sold it to adam
i think gina might get a kick out of this...but seriously
--- End quote ---
Okay that was seriously funny. 8) I suppose it could be said Eve bought the lie and Adam bought the farm. And we inherited it. Oh happy day! ;D
Seriously though, God's so cool. I mean, He apologies for nothing. My mind keeps going back to this for comfort and strength:
1 Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I know how such a man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows—
4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.
5 On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses.
6 For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.
7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me—to keep me from exalting myself!
8 Concerning this I implored the Lord three times that it might leave me.
9 And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. [ I think I just realized what Paul means by this for the first time in my entire life. ]
10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.
That thing that Paul saw was so wonderful that he was willing to be thrown in prison and shipwrecked and all of that. He said, we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;
And he called all of that "light" and "momentary" tribulation and not at all to be compared to what God has waiting for us. What did he see?! You can't make this stuff up! Atheists say, Well, the bible was written by men under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms. I'm like, um... I think....Not?
I confess I've been tempted to want to believe that someone made it all up to control us but when you search the scripture and test them, that's when you just know.
.....What did that man see?! One will never know in this lifetime perhaps, or will one?
Oh well. Thanks for humoring me folks. Honestly, I didn't feel like doing the dishes or hanging up my clothes. The distraction's been good -- a very good distraction.
:)
No, I knew what you meant, Kenneth -- I agree with you.
arion:
--- Quote from: Gina on July 10, 2012, 09:36:08 PM ---
Romans 7:14 KJV
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
How is Paul using the word "sold"?
--- End quote ---
Well, we need to remember that Paul isn't using the word 'sold' as he never spoke English. The words in the Greek are πιπράσκω, πράω or pipraskō praō and Strong's explains it thusly;
The first is a reduplicated and prolonged form of the second (which occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses); contracted from περάω peraō (to traverse; from the base of G4008); to traffic (by travelling), that is, dispose of as merchandise or into slavery (literally or figuratively): - sell.
Thayer expounds on those words a little bit more;
Thayer Definition:
1) to sell
1a) of price, one into slavery
1b) of the master to whom one is sold as a slave
2) metaphorically
2a) sold under sin, entirely under the control of the love of sinning
2b) of one bribed to give himself up wholly to another’s will
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a reduplicated and prolonged form of prao, (which occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses), contracted from perao (to traverse, from the base of G4008)
Citing in TDNT: 6:160, 846
Kat:
Hi Gina,
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
I think that the key in that verse is the first part of that statement, "I am carnal, sold under sin." What does it mean to be carnal/flesh/sold under sin? "Death."
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
So as flesh/carnal human being, we are sold/captive to sin and death.
Rom 7:13 Has then what is good (the law) become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
Then Paul goes on to say there is no good in him and he can't do good even when he wants to, because he is flesh and carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
v. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
So we as carnal human being (which we all are) and held captive to sin and helpless, with only the certainty of death. We only have one hope... Jesus Christ!
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
v. 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Gina:
Thanks Kat. I guess I'm still stuck on that word "sold" - you know how Ray's always saying to pay attention to all the words. So that word sold caught my attention--so many times I just read right over it. But now it's like, why is that word there? Carnality does equal death. But sold and carnal are two different things. Why not just say "I'm carnal - captured into sin?"
It makes me think of how God caused Joseph's family to flee the famine and then before they knew it they were all slaves in Egypt.
Maybe I'm over-thinking this.
Anyway, you're so kind to respond. Thank you. :)
Gina:
Arion, thanks -- I missed your post. Sorry. It's starting to make a lot more sense now.
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