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[levycarneiro]

Found this by accident today, but it's so cool that I had to post it


"Malachi 3:3 says 'And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver...'

This Bible verse has intrigued some ladies in a bible study group and they kept thinking what this statement meant regarding God's character and nature.

One of them volunteered to investigate more about this process of refining silver, for the next bible study.

In that week, this lady called a goldsmith and setup an appointment so she could just watch him work. She didn't mention why she was interested in that, she just said she was curious to understand this process.

So she went to watch him. The goldsmith took a piece of silver and was holding it over the fire, letting it get hot.

He explained that, for the silver refinement, it's necessary to hold the silver piece right in the middle of the flame, where it's hotter and impurities are burned.

The lady was thinking of God, who sometimes hold us in very 'hot' situations in life, and she thought of the verse: 'And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver...'.

She asked the artisan if he really had to be seated there all the time, in front of the fire, while the silver was being refined.

He said yes, not only he had to be there holding the silver, but he also had to keep his eyes on it all the time it was in the flames. If the silver piece stayed there one minute more in the fire, it would get destroyed.

The lady was silent for a moment. Then she asked 'How do you know when the silver is completely refined?'

He smiled and said: 'Oh, this is easy... it's ready when I can see MY IMAGE in it'."

(Emphasis mine.)



God bless!
Levy

[the truth]

Hello,Levycarneiro

Thats is so good....Thanks for sharing!Its even more interesting to me as I have been studying some things and found some Scriptures that are interesting Spiritual matches.

Proverbs 7-19 -20  Pro 7:19 For the husband is not in his home; He has gone on his way afar.
Pro 7:20 He took a pouch of silver in his hand, And he shall come back to his home only with the day of full moon.[The feast of Tabernacle.]hehe!

Some translations use the word "Bag".... of money.In Hebrew the word "Bag" as several meanings.One meaning is a "small stone"
Silver represents redemption...What does that mean?

Psa 12:6 The words of Yahweh are clean words, Silver refined in a kiln, Fine gold cupelled seven times.
Psa 12:7 You, O Yahweh, You shall guard them; You shall preserve us from this generation for the eon.

So the Bag of money in the Husbands hand is His pure words,which are spirit and life,the living water{torah]
He....the Husband....Christ... took them with him and we must be born again.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, If anyone should not be begotten of water....[Torah...the word..} and of spirit, he can not be entering into the kingdom of God."

Proverbs 7-19-27 IS a hidden treasure!

[gmik]

wow...very cool!

[the truth]

Also...Rev-2-17 Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what, the Spirit, is saying unto the assemblies. Unto him that overcometh, I will give, unto him, of the hidden manna, and I will give unto him a white stone, and, upon the stone, a new name written, which, no one, knoweth, save he that receiveth it.

And I will give him a white stone=being found NOT guilty by Judge Yehshua![We are living stones]

And upon the stone=Which is the Rock,the Foundation,Which is torah,which is Yehshua,the word made flesh will not pass away to all be fullfilled.

A new name written=[from heaven which is the renewed covenant not something that is new were the old is done away which most people are taught.That is the other Gospel the other Kingdom.Satans kingdom,the broad way that leads to destruction]

save he that receiveth it.=Rev 19-12-13.  and, his eyes, are a flame of fire, and, upon his head, are many diadems, having, a name, written, which, no one, knoweth, but himself,
Rev 19:13 and arrayed with a mantle sprinkled with blood, and his name hath been called—The Word of God.

Ya,writes his words upon our hearts by the Spirit and the word washes us from all sin.

[cjwood]

levy, i really enjoyed reading the account of the silver refiner.  it is just so mind blowing how God is so cool in the imagery He gives through His Spirit in the Scriptures.  i mean, knowing that the refinement of the silver is completed when the refiner can see his image in it.  Just exactly how our Creator does His refinement in us!  simple explanations that are HUGE in meaning for our learning.  thanks for the story.

claudia

[servias]

That is awesome Levy, If this is a real true story please give me a link where you found it.  Thanks!

[levycarneiro]

That is awesome Levy, If this is a real true story please give me a link where you found it.  Thanks!

Hello Dan!

I found this in a blog (in Brazilian Portuguese) where the author shared this as a devotional. It looked to be pasted from somewhere else.

http://canadasansfrontieres.blogspot.com.br/2011/02/malaquias-33.html

I can't open the same URL again, it displays a 'not found' error now.

[servias]

That is awesome Levy, If this is a real true story please give me a link where you found it.  Thanks!

Hello Dan!

I found this in a blog (in Brazilian Portuguese) where the author shared this as a devotional. It looked to be pasted from somewhere else.

http://canadasansfrontieres.blogspot.com.br/2011/02/malaquias-33.html

I can't open the same URL again, it displays a 'not found' error now.

I found an English version, http://www.saltandlightgroup.com/pdfs/Freedom_Silver_Refined.pdf
Google never lets me down. 
I couldn't find an original author though but either way this was a great find!

Thanks,
Dan

[eggi]

A new name written=[from heaven which is the renewed covenant not something that is new were the old is done away which most people are taught.That is the other Gospel the other Kingdom.

Hi thetruth,

Could you explain what you meant by the above statement?

Eirik

[the truth]

Hello Eggi...aka..Eirik

Most in the denominations of men are teaching their people to do away with the  ...the Old Testament Scripture.They teach them that we are under a New Covenat thus they only teach New Testament Scripture.Well mainly ...they have to go back to Old Testament to preach their tithing gig...but then they close it back up.I remember Kenneth Hagan always said..."The Old testament is for Spiritually dead people and the New for the Spiritual alive people."huh.

So Eggi,That helps them be assured along with the rest of their False doctrines.That they preach another Gospel of a other Kingdom...Satan kingdom!

Rev 22:18  `For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,
Rev 22:19  and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;

There is so much more to it Eirik that cant be shared here.I will say Luke 24-44.We cant buck the Scripture as Ray would say.Those who think Revelation is just a Spiritual book will be really surprised In my humble opinion.If He fullfilled the first 4 Feast I think he will fullfill the last three!So, with that being said .....I hope I answered your question Eirik.I tried to answer without crossing the line.

I would like to say something that Craig said the other day when he locked out the one post.Lets talk about something we all can agree on.That's wisdom in which I am personally going to put to practice.Because this is what this sight is all about really. Discussing the things Ray taught.There are some awesome people on this forum that have forgot more than i know about the Kingdom.I wish I could fellowship more with them...and some I do.We must all continue to strive to learn more about the Kingdom of God. But if Ray hasn't taught it it wont be discussed here .By ME!..God help me to do just that!

[indianabob]

Hi Jerry,

I too think that it could be valuable to explore the seven festival days that God has ordained. Not that we have to observe them during this age, but just for context with what the Jews of Jesus' day did understand and why they responded to Jesus' ministry in the manner that they did. But that's for another thread or perhaps for private, individual exploration.

Indiana Bob

[Kat]

But that's for another thread or perhaps for private, individual exploration.

Indiana Bob

Not because of this discussion, but what Bob said I would like to encourage people to use the private messaging (pm) to discuss topic that might not be appropriate according to the forum rules. We are limited what we can discuss on the forum, but not in pm's.

So we are all like minded and are gathered here and could use this opportunity to have private disussions, if we find someone who might share an interest in the same subject. Of course this is just another option and if you are not interest or don't have the time and someone sends you a message, just say so. Anyway just thought I would mention this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[eggi]

Hello Eggi...aka..Eirik

Most in the denominations of men are teaching their people to do away with the  ...the Old Testament Scripture.They teach them that we are under a New Covenat thus they only teach New Testament Scripture.Well mainly ...they have to go back to Old Testament to preach their tithing gig...but then they close it back up.I remember Kenneth Hagan always said..."The Old testament is for Spiritually dead people and the New for the Spiritual alive people."huh.

I agree with you on this, Jerry.

So Eggi,That helps them be assured along with the rest of their False doctrines.That they preach another Gospel of a other Kingdom...Satan kingdom!

You are absolutely right, it is a very bad idea to leave out the Old Testament.

Rev 22:18  `For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll,
Rev 22:19  and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;

There is so much more to it Eirik that cant be shared here.I will say Luke 24-44.We cant buck the Scripture as Ray would say.Those who think Revelation is just a Spiritual book will be really surprised In my humble opinion.If He fullfilled the first 4 Feast I think he will fullfill the last three!So, with that being said .....I hope I answered your question Eirik.I tried to answer without crossing the line.

He will fulfill all the prophecy. What I didn't quite understand was that you used the words renewed covenant. This sounded a bit different to me, so I wanted to hear what you actually meant by that phrase. I always thought it was called the NEW covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31-32
"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.

Hebrews 8:4-7:
Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN." But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

I would like to say something that Craig said the other day when he locked out the one post.Lets talk about something we all can agree on.That's wisdom in which I am personally going to put to practice.Because this is what this sight is all about really. Discussing the things Ray taught.There are some awesome people on this forum that have forgot more than i know about the Kingdom.I wish I could fellowship more with them...and some I do.We must all continue to strive to learn more about the Kingdom of God. But if Ray hasn't taught it it wont be discussed here .By ME!..God help me to do just that!

Sure we can discuss things we agree upon, but after all, you were the one who introduced the expression "renewed covenant" Jerry. I was merely asking.

I agree that we must all continue to strive to learn more.

God bless you,
Eirik

[the truth]

Hello,Eirik

He will fulfill all the prophecy. What I didn't quite understand was that you used the words renewed covenant. This sounded a bit different to me, so I wanted to hear what you actually meant by that phrase. I always thought it was called the NEW covenant.

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.......

How do we get something new out of that?



2.If people want to say New Covenant .I agree its a New Covenant..It says so right in our bibles...Just like it says...The Law Is Spiritual..Do I believe that.... Yes!Because that is what the Scripture says.But what is truly the work that happens that makes it Sp ritual?Again The Law is Spiritual....What is the Law... the Torah?What is the Torah?The Word...What Is the word...Jesus!So is the Law spiritual?YES ...Because some words printed on a page?Or is it because the An noiting is on those words.

3.Which brings me to what I really want to say:I am not going to Make another statement that it is Really A re-newed covenant.Why? Because I don't feel like dealing with a pack of wolves that lie in the bushes because they might see it a different way.....NOT REFERRING TO YOU Eirik!

4. As I have posted before I have a 70 Chevelle and its restored.Its Like new..But it not really new because its 2012.So to me its renewed.Same car...that some blessed soul bought in 1970.I have one just like it in 2012!

5.So Eirik..Again this has nothing to do with your question or you so please believe me when I say I am not trying to be a jerk.I think your very respectful in how you address everyone.

So this is all I want to say in-regards to this if that's ok.

[eggi]

Hi Jerry,

Thank you for your response. I understand more what you mean now. Although may not 100%, but that's OK. I appreciate your input on this. I'm trying to get a better grasp on these things myself. I liked very much how you reasoned saying that Jesus is the Torah (Living Word). That's food for thought and study.

I'm sure your car is very nice even though it isn't new. In fact out of curiosity I Googled it to see how it was, because I'm not so familiar with American cars. It is very beautiful. I hope you enjoy riding in it!

As to your analogy with a renewed car / covenant, I would say that the New Covenant is more like an upgrade and not just restoring the car back to it's old glory. It excels! In this new car (Covenant) you can go on roads that you couldn't go previously. The old car couldn't go on that kind of road, the new car can! And as you said, the potential (spirit) was always in the law, it's just that the right parts were missing. Maybe I'm off road again here...

God bless you,
Eirik

I'll

Hello,Eirik

He will fulfill all the prophecy. What I didn't quite understand was that you used the words renewed covenant. This sounded a bit different to me, so I wanted to hear what you actually meant by that phrase. I always thought it was called the NEW covenant.

Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.......

How do we get something new out of that?



2.If people want to say New Covenant .I agree its a New Covenant..It says so right in our bibles...Just like it says...The Law Is Spiritual..Do I believe that.... Yes!Because that is what the Scripture says.But what is truly the work that happens that makes it Sp ritual?Again The Law is Spiritual....What is the Law... the Torah?What is the Torah?The Word...What Is the word...Jesus!So is the Law spiritual?YES ...Because some words printed on a page?Or is it because the An noiting is on those words.

3.Which brings me to what I really want to say:I am not going to Make another statement that it is Really A re-newed covenant.Why? Because I don't feel like dealing with a pack of wolves that lie in the bushes because they might see it a different way.....NOT REFERRING TO YOU Eirik!

4. As I have posted before I have a 70 Chevelle and its restored.Its Like new..But it not really new because its 2012.So to me its renewed.Same car...that some blessed soul bought in 1970.I have one just like it in 2012!

5.So Eirik..Again this has nothing to do with your question or you so please believe me when I say I am not trying to be a jerk.I think your very respectful in how you address everyone.

So this is all I want to say in-regards to this if that's ok.

[Kat]

Here is an excerpt from aritcle no. 11 LoF, about the old and new convenants.

http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html -----------------

There was an OLD covenant, and now there is a NEW covenant. Do you know what the NEW COVENANT is? Theologians teach that the New covenant is keeping the OLD covenant, BETTER! That is unscriptural nonsense! They teach that we are to keep the law of Moses, BETTER, and we will fulfill the NEW testament.

Is the New Covenant patterned according to the Old Covenant? Let’s read it:

"For finding fault with them, He says, Behold, the days come says the Lord, when I will make a NEW covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah [he is a JEW who is circumcised in his heart and spirit, Rom. 2:29]: NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT that I made with their fathers…" (Heb. 8:8-9).

So then, is the NEW covenant "according" or "NOT according" to the Old covenant?

Then why does the Church continue making the Old Covenant binding on Christians?

Christendom is attempting to believe in the New Covenant, while at the same time trying to live in the Old Covenant. This can’t be done. In fact, Jesus sternly warned against attempting to do such a contradictory and damaging endeavor:

"And He [Jesus] spoke also a parable unto them [the Pharisees]: No man puts a piece of new garment upon an old: if otherwise, then both the new makes a rent [tear], and the piece that was taken out of the new agrees not with the old [‘NOT according with the covenant which I made with their fathers (the OLD Covenant, Heb. 8:9)]. And no man puts new wine into old bottles [wineskins]; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish [be RUINED]. But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires new; for he says, The OLD is better" (Luke 5:36-39).

This is a parable! Jesus is speaking of the Old and New Covenants. We cannot, we dare not, try to put the old with the new. BOTH WILL BE RUINED! Why don’t we believe Jesus? We can’t put the Old and the New together. And true to Jesus’ words, when people come into a knowledge of the New Covenant, they PREFER THE OLD BETTER!

Did you also notice that when we put these two covenants in their proper places (the Old is for babes to bring them to Christ, while the new is for those maturing into Sonship), that they are BOTH PRESERVED? Yes, both are preserved, but only if we don’t MIX THEM. Could anything be clearer.

The "Chosen" live by the New Covenant: The "Called" try to live by the New and the Old Covenants. They have never learned this simple lesson: "No servant can serve TWO masters…" (Luke 16:13). The two covenants are not even in "according" with one another—they are not to be "unequally yoked together," seeing that they are not equal. If you want to be a New Testament Christian, then you need to learn and know what the New Testament is all about.
---------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[the truth]

Thanks Kat. For your post as a very good reminder of what we should be discussing when we talk about the Scriptures here.What Ray Taught.Glad it was you and not a wolf.....lol!

[John from Kentucky]

The Torah----The Law of Moses----the Old Covenant----cannot be observed by anyone today.

Many sections of the Torah require animal sacrifices and other offerings to be made by the Levitical priesthood at the place God would choose.

Since 70 A.D., with the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of the Levitical priesthood, the Old Covenant cannot be kept.

The New Covenant is our only option now.  Worshiping God in Spirit and Truth, for the Father seeks such to worship Him.

Any other way is the religion of men.

[Gina]

Very good post, Kat.  Thank you. 

Whereas, the old covenant was dependent on carnal man to live up to his end of the "bargain" so to speak, the NEW Covenant is dependent on God's word and His oath, ONLY.   This is good news!  It is not dependent on man.  How could it be?  Otherwise, we would be able to say--Yes, Lord, *I* did this.  But we know that nothing good dwells within us -- or in our flesh.  Carnal man cannot write God's spiritual laws on their own hearts -- how could we?  The thought is preposterous.

And God knew that man couldn't live up to his end of the bargain and that's why the old covenant has to go and in its place NEW covenant that is solely dependent on God to keep.  That is why the old covenant it is rendered completely useless.  Carnal man does not possess the ability to hold God to His Word.  Only God can do and does that.


The Certainty of God’s Promise

 Heb 6:13-18 For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself, saying, “Surely I will bless you and multiply you.” And thus Abraham, having patiently waited, obtained the promise. For people swear by something greater than themselves, and in all their disputes an oath is final for confirmation. So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things [i.e. (1) His Word/Promise and (2) His oath],  in which it is impossible for God to lie, ....

Isa 45:23 By Myself I have sworn; from My mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’

Isa 55:11 so shall My word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it.

So, because man is not capable of keeping his own promises or capable of changing himself (can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?), God steps in and forms a New Covenant that is solely dependent on Him to keep whereby He proceeds to write His spiritual laws on our hearts -- and only He can do that; and He will do that:  (ref Isa 55:11).  He doesn't lie.

As Ray has said many times, we do work out our salvation but only because it is God who is working in us [writing his spiritual laws on our hearts] to will and do His good pleasure:

Phil 2:12-13  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

So we don't ever have to fear.  He is the Author and Finisher of our Faith -- and that not of ourselves; it too is a gift of God.  We are saved by the faith OF [not in] Jesus Christ:

Hebrews 6:18-20...we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

I hope this makes sense and has blessed someone.

[space.ace.jase]

Great thread, I really enjoyed reading it.

Thank Gina for the scripture it hits very close to home.