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Author Topic: 666???  (Read 18196 times)

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newgene87

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666???
« on: July 12, 2012, 11:27:50 PM »

so, just finished reading Ray's paper on the "Mark of the Beast" and gotta say i love it. no doubt, it's like my 5th time reading it (total). I understand I am the beast and you are the beast, WHY I am the beast: the falling away, my house on sand falling, leaving my first love and all that Great yadayada. BUT... why 666??? meaning, WHY did John use specifically those numbers?

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man (i know not A man, but MANkind); and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. " (Rev 13:18)

other questions are: WHERE is the wisdom there? how are we counting (spiritually) this number of the beast (which is me)? and why o why is it "six hundred threescore and six"?

Now i may be looking too deep into this; but our beloved Ray taught me to PAY ATTENTION TO THE WORDS. and from what i see, he expounded on the verse being Man, and not a man, but not the issue on the number. Can anyone help me out. Thank you

Eugene to a NewGene
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 11:57:23 PM by newgene87 »
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newgene87

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Re: 666???
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 11:30:27 PM »

might i add; i heard there's another rendering of it that it's not exactly 666, but it could be 616 or something like that. regardless, i know that, so if someone does bring that up; please just expound the spiritual significance of 666 or 616 and the counting of it
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 02:00:04 AM by newgene87 »
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indianabob

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Re: 666???
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 11:43:10 PM »

For significant numbers try this. No guarantee of rightness.

777 is the number of completeness of God's plans.

666 is the number of man's ways in exercising his own will, doing what seems right to man.

It's just an old saying that may have no real meaning, so handle with gloves.

Bob
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newgene87

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Re: 666???
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 11:50:43 PM »

For significant numbers try this. No guarantee of rightness.

777 is the number of completeness of God's plans.

666 is the number of man's ways in exercising his own will, doing what seems right to man.

It's just an old saying that may have no real meaning, so handle with gloves.

Bob

sooooo as i put these new heavy duty gloves on * :P slips on*, i will grasp these sayings, look at them with a bewildered look ( ??? ??? ??? ???) and ask the question why oh why 777? and 666 again?... like is there a spiritual match of scripture for it. now let me lay it down. i dont want to, ya kno, drop it like it's hot, cuz its not, but...frustrating  :D

thanks tho Bob
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Gina

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Re: 666???
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 12:19:57 AM »

Not sure how you came up with "777" being the number of completeness, Bob, when I already told you that it's two 7's.   ;D

If I may....

I've been told that the spirit behind the three 6's is like this: 

66 books of the bible = the sum of God's word [two 6's down, 1 to go...]
6th day of creation = First Adam was made by God. 

Tah dah!

Logically, that makes no sense and there seems to be something missing; maybe it's because we have the "letter" and we have "man"; but a man can read all sixty-six books of the bible every day for the rest of his life and still come up short of being "complete" because reading God's word will not impart the Holy Spirit; only God can do that. 

Here is WISDOM, Eugene----------God's saying to us:  You're one taco short of a combination plate.  (Or to put it delicately:  "You're not fully clothed.")

the end.

---------------------------Years ago my sister explained that the number 2 means "witness" to the truth of a matter. 

Still someone else told me that 8 means "new beginning" since the week ends or completes on the 7th day and a "new" week begins with the 8th day, basically.

And that's all I know, Eugene!  That's all I know.   :)  Which isn't much when you think about it.   :P
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:22:35 AM by Gina »
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newgene87

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Re: 666???
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 12:47:52 AM »

I've been told that the spirit behind the three 6's is like this: 

66 books of the bible = the sum of God's word [two 6's down, 1 to go...]
6th day of creation = First Adam was made by God. 

Tah dah!

Logically, that makes no sense and there seems to be something missing; maybe it's because we have the "letter" and we have "man"; but a man can read all sixty-six books of the bible every day for the rest of his life and still come up short of being "complete" because reading God's word will not impart the Holy Spirit; only God can do that. ...

oh but Sweet Gina, Ray teaches there are actually 49 books of the bible. quoted from his transcript on "how we got the bible"...

"I said there was 22 books written by 66 AD and by the end of John’s ministry, he added 5 more. 

22 +5 = 27  + 22 OT books, all total 49. 

7 x 7 = 49 = total completion. 

That’s how many books there are suppose to be, that’s how many we have. So we’ve got the complete Bible.

There are some verses that are screwed up. We are going to go over some of those. But we have the complete Bible. In proper numbering it’s 7 x 7, count the number in the King James, how many are there?  66, whose number is that (man, Rev 13:18). The proper numbers are, 22 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New Testament 7 x 7 = 49. That’s how many it should be, we do have the whole Bible. There are either quotations, statements or they alluded to (in the New Testament) that pertain to over a thousand Old Testament Scriptures. Not one quote, from the Apocryphal books that are in the King James or the Catholic Bible or all Bibles before 1885. 

Then Catholics played games with it for a while. They saw that 66 was kind of ominous, but the Protestants came up with 66 and the Catholics said, boy that doesn‘t sound right. So at one point they added 14, so it was 80. Most had 80 and even the later additions all had 80. 
But the Apostles had it right, it was 27. They knew how many the Old Testament had, they could just go to the local Rabbi and ask him, it was 22.  27 and 22 is 49, that is 7 x 7. [End quote]

so yea, that throws out the 66 books thing. which actually means, man CAN be complet reading the scriptures :P. now, understanding and revelation is only from God of course :D. but thanks Gina. the random info on 8 and 2 was interesting i guess. still doesnt fulfill the 666 deal ::)

Eugene
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 12:53:25 AM by newgene87 »
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the truth

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Re: 666???
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 01:04:39 AM »

Hello Newgene
I think of it this way.

1.FIRST 6=Man
2.second 6=thoughts=mind
3.third 6=mans actions

its in these three actions that complete a man.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and sentence of judgment was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them who had been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus and because of the word of God, and such as had not done homage unto the wild-beast or unto his image, nor had received the mark upon their forehead or upon their hand; and they lived and reigned with the Christ, for a thousand years.

upon their forehead or upon their hand;Christ will renew our minds=renewed actions.
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Gina

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Re: 666???
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 01:09:29 AM »

You are absolutely right Eugene. 
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newgene87

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Re: 666???
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 01:35:13 AM »

Hello Newgene
I think of it this way.

1.FIRST 6=Man
2.second 6=thoughts=mind
3.third 6=mans actions

its in these three actions that complete a man.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and sentence of judgment was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them who had been beheaded because of the witness of Jesus and because of the word of God, and such as had not done homage unto the wild-beast or unto his image, nor had received the mark upon their forehead or upon their hand; and they lived and reigned with the Christ, for a thousand years.

upon their forehead or upon their hand;Christ will renew our minds=renewed actions.

alright, that got me step closer to an understanding butttttt, how did that equation work out with the 6's being man's thoughts and actions?? thanks for your input Truth, i was waiting on you because you put some deep stuff. now, i will put back on my handy dandy snorkel and dive into this post of yours but can you help me out? how did you come up with that equation?

Thanks
Eugene
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doug

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Re: 666???
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2012, 02:16:37 AM »

Hey Eugene -

Through my study of the scriptures I have found if the number 6 has any symbolical or spiritual meaning it probably should identify with work.  The number 6 signifies a theme of man's work illustrated throughout scripture:

God worked 6 days to create the universe, man was created on the 6th day, men are appointed 6 days to labor, a Hebrew slave was to serve 6 years and be released on the 7th, 6 years were appointed for the land to be sown and harvested, etc. And the number 666 of Revelation 13:18 identifies with the unbeliever non elect who essentially are working to get right with God.

You are correct in saying that the number is not a number of "a" man, but the number of man.  Just like we don't translate Christ as the Son of a Man... He was the Son of Man.  He was of mankind.  In other words He was a human being.

And here also in Rev. the same word is used, so it would have to mean that it is the number of man, the number of mankind, the number of the human race.  Anyone who is an unbeliever symbolically has the number 666 on his forehead.  It is assigned to the non elect who is destined to the lake of fire after the first resurrection.  To make this more apparent of mankind working for their salvation, here are a couple of examples:

In Zechariah 13 in verse 8:  Two-thirds I will cut off and destroy, but one-third..." and then it goes on to speak about the redemption of the one-third.  The number two-thirds, if written as a decimal, is .666666, and if we just use the first three numbers, we have 666.  We read about David, when he defeated the Moabites, that he caused them to lie down in three lines.  Two of the lines he put to death.  One line he spared, and they served him.  David there was a type of Christ, the two-thirds a figure of those who are under the judgment of God and the one-third a figure of those who are the elect.  In II Kings I we read of Elijah, that he was sent for by the wicked king of Israel.  And a company of men came to take him and he called down fire from heaven, and they were destroyed.  A second company of men came to take him, and he called down fire from heaven and they were destroyed.  A third company of men came to take him, and plead for mercy, and they were spared.  Again we have two-thirds being destroyed, and one-third being spared.

Now with what I have shared... I wouldn't take it as "thus saith the Lord" but what I have observed, and so it could possibly change with newer understanding with others comments.

doug
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newgene87

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Re: 666???
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2012, 02:58:08 AM »

Hey Eugene -

Through my study of the scriptures I have found if the number 6 has any symbolical or spiritual meaning it probably should identify with work.  The number 6 signifies a theme of man's work illustrated throughout scripture:

God worked 6 days to create the universe, man was created on the 6th day, men are appointed 6 days to labor, a Hebrew slave was to serve 6 years and be released on the 7th, 6 years were appointed for the land to be sown and harvested, etc. And the number 666 of Revelation 13:18 identifies with the unbeliever non elect who essentially are working to get right with God.

You are correct in saying that the number is not a number of "a" man, but the number of man.  Just like we don't translate Christ as the Son of a Man... He was the Son of Man.  He was of mankind.  In other words He was a human being.

And here also in Rev. the same word is used, so it would have to mean that it is the number of man, the number of mankind, the number of the human race.  Anyone who is an unbeliever symbolically has the number 666 on his forehead.  It is assigned to the non elect who is destined to the lake of fire after the first resurrection.  To make this more apparent of mankind working for their salvation, here are a couple of examples:

In Zechariah 13 in verse 8:  Two-thirds I will cut off and destroy, but one-third..." and then it goes on to speak about the redemption of the one-third.  The number two-thirds, if written as a decimal, is .666666, and if we just use the first three numbers, we have 666.  We read about David, when he defeated the Moabites, that he caused them to lie down in three lines.  Two of the lines he put to death.  One line he spared, and they served him.  David there was a type of Christ, the two-thirds a figure of those who are under the judgment of God and the one-third a figure of those who are the elect.  In II Kings I we read of Elijah, that he was sent for by the wicked king of Israel.  And a company of men came to take him and he called down fire from heaven, and they were destroyed.  A second company of men came to take him, and he called down fire from heaven and they were destroyed.  A third company of men came to take him, and plead for mercy, and they were spared.  Again we have two-thirds being destroyed, and one-third being spared.

Now with what I have shared... I wouldn't take it as "thus saith the Lord" but what I have observed, and so it could possibly change with newer understanding with others comments.

doug

now that's more like it. now i can work with that. while i'm still swimming in thetruths post, i can see how 6 can signify work. or man's action, what he will do and etc. thanks doug

it's just so easy to read commentaries on this matter; and they are OFF THE WALL. one shows an equation of the greek letters of the number forming a title, which means "Messiah of Satan" (like really ??? ??? ???). and the number actually stood for ceasar of the day or something like that; an actual man during that time; obviously most biblical interpretations today are SO FRAUD. Just seeking the truth.

thanks again Doug
Eugene
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noeleena

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Re: 666???
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 03:01:02 AM »

Hi,

Those who have the mind set of english will only see in english & since the letters are not english there wont be any english numbers there in so what langage is it writen in .

Versucuchen Sie r'o'mische Zahlen.
vielleicht sogar Brefe.
und wenn


& does it refer to one man or more,& when,

...noeleena...
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Gina

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Re: 666???
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 03:42:41 AM »

I'm listening noeleena.  :)
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newgene87

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Re: 666???
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 03:43:28 AM »

Hi,

Those who have the mind set of english will only see in english & since the letters are not english there wont be any english numbers there in so what langage is it writen in .

well it was written in Greek, but the translation is correct. combining 600, 60 and 6. "εξακοσια  εξηκοντα εξ" is the words for this, but that does no good. the translation, i believe, would still be six hundred threescore and six.

the question is still; how does these numbers, count to be the number of the beast??

Versucuchen Sie r'o'mische Zahlen.
vielleicht sogar Brefe.
und wenn


speaking of translation; translation please? ;) :D


& does it refer to one man or more,& when,

...noeleena...

and in the words of our beloved Ray...

"The Greek word used when only man is meant (always excluding woman), is aner. But the Greek word translated "man" in Rev. 13:18 is not aner, but rather the word anthropos, which means "a human being, male or female." Strong’s Concordant.

Furthermore, it is not the number of "a" anything. It is just the number of human or of mankind! Even the Revised Standard Version translators saw this and therefore, states, "It’s number is six hundred sixty-six." The number of the wild beast is not the number of "a" man, but rather the number of "man" or "mankind." [end quote]

Eugene
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Gina

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Re: 666???
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 04:01:42 AM »

I think where we're all going wrong is, we're looking at the 666 number and taking it literally.  Remember how we looked at 144,000 literally?  But it's not literally 144,000 thousand.  And it can't be literally six hundred and sixty-six either.  I can't believe that just occurred to me.  Shame on me.

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cjwood

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Re: 666???
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 04:13:23 AM »

just a thought, i believe that whenever God was emphasizing the great importance of certain matters in the Scriptures, He would declare it three times.  maybe, the number 6 for mankind was being emphasized by God the Father by the combination of the three 6's.  okay, maybe it is way off target, but, it was just a thought.  and of course, as we have learned, all of revelations is symbolic and not literal.

claudia
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newgene87

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Re: 666???
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 04:15:49 AM »

I think where we're all going wrong is, we're looking at the 666 number and taking it literally.  Remember how we looked at 144,000 literally?  But it's not literally 144,000 thousand.  And it can't be literally six hundred and sixty-six either.  I can't believe that just occurred to me.  Shame on me.

not implying that all scripture has "reason" but the 144,000 had reason. John did list each tribe of Israel, stating specifically 12,000 of each tribe. i missed that

Rev 7:5  Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand:
Rev 7:6  Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand:
Rev 7:7  Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand:
Rev 7:8  Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

but, of course it's spiritual, and it's a totality figure. but 666? naw, i dont take ANYTHING literal in Revelations. John said, " I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me ...". yet, again, why 666? what is spiritual about it?

now this can be wrapped in an enigma at the end of it all. it's fine with me. Jesus is still my Savior, my Lord, and my God :D :D. I'm just so hungry to see things i never saw before. :D

and thanks Cj. that is food for thought. God did call Samuel 3 times -1Sam 3:8 -....but he called Moses name 2 times (Exo 3:4); and Jesus seemed to love, "Verily, Verily...". ah 2, 3, tomato, tomahto; i get the picture. i'm going to get this enigma one day. but it wont be an idol tho. I'm just fascinated with Scripture and how it eventually lines up :D :D

Eugene
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 04:22:05 AM by newgene87 »
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noeleena

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Re: 666???
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 05:00:47 AM »

Hi,

So if we leave out the numbers & looking at what was going on around that time before & after who were the people it concerned was it the ( r'o'mische ) roman,

There is a name it refered to  some thing in detail concerning the romans, roman letters ,

change the numbers to  letters in  = like as for english 1 = a , 2 =b  it was done in such a way to fool the romans,

its over 25 years since i went through it ,i got sick of hearing the same claptrap so i just left it alone walked away, so my info went as well.

When i saw you's talking about it,   i though okay. & the people who used to stir up others with in some groups i knew ,  allways said what was writen in the letters  ( bible ), its just translated all wrong allthough it got the people in to fear mode. thats what these so called pastors did,  so if you dig some more up will see what you come  up with. see if its close to what i have,  there was one name given just could be spelt slightly different , i cant think of the names, i bury things away ,in my mind  so takes a while to find them.

...noeleena...
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 05:06:46 AM by noeleena »
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indianabob

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Re: 666???
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 09:14:50 AM »

Hi Eugene,

Did you notice that the tribe of Dan was not mentioned among the twelve tribes of Israel?
I wonder why?
Indianabob
- - - -

Gen 30:1  And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
Gen 30:2  And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?
Gen 30:3  And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.
Gen 30:4  And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.
Gen 30:5  And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.
Gen 30:6  And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.


= = = =

I think where we're all going wrong is, we're looking at the 666 number and taking it literally.  Remember how we looked at 144,000 literally?  But it's not literally 144,000 thousand.  And it can't be literally six hundred and sixty-six either.  I can't believe that just occurred to me.  Shame on me.

not implying that all scripture has "reason" but the 144,000 had reason. John did list each tribe of Israel, stating specifically 12,000 of each tribe. i missed that

Rev 7:5  Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand:
Rev 7:6  Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand:
Rev 7:7  Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand:
Rev 7:8  Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

 

Eugene
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the truth

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Re: 666???
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2012, 10:14:42 AM »

Hello newgene

Sorry newgene if I didnt explain more clearly in my post.Just a fine line in teaching and answering a question here on the forum.I think Doug expressed the just of what I am saying though.The number 666 completes the order in which the state or condition the un-converted man rest.....in carnality.

example: Heb 4:12 For, living, is the word of God, and, energetic, and more cutting than any knife with two edges, and penetrating as far as a dividing asunder of soul and spirit, of joints also, and marrow, and able to judge the impulses and designs of the hear

1Th 5:23 But, the God of peace himself, hallow you completely, and, entire, might your spirit, and soul, and body,— so as to be unblameable in the Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ,—be perserved.

Heb-4-12-the un-converted man  spirit is ruled BY his soul.

 I believe Ray has something in his writings in regards to how I got the "what each 6 stood for not sure.

1-Thess 5-23 man his spirit rules his soul
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