666???

[Gina]

Claudia's on to something. 

You figure - there were 7 lampstands (ref. Rev.) and 7 "signifies" all churches [albeit not "complete" churches because they're lacking].  And God repeats that number 7 again and again, but it's all speaking to the same thing: the churches

So,just like Claudia said, when God repeats something, He's trying to drive home a point.  So to me, 666 stands for mankind without the Holy Spirit of God -- which is at its very core nothing more than a carnal-minded BEAST.

[newgene87]

Hi Eugene,

Did you notice that the tribe of Dan was not mentioned among the twelve tribes of Israel?
I wonder why?
Indianabob
- - - -

Gen 30:1  And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
Gen 30:2  And Jacob's anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God's stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?
Gen 30:3  And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.
Gen 30:4  And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.
Gen 30:5  And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.
Gen 30:6  And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

= = = =

I think where we're all going wrong is, we're looking at the 666 number and taking it literally.  Remember how we looked at 144,000 literally?  But it's not literally 144,000 thousand.  And it can't be literally six hundred and sixty-six either.  I can't believe that just occurred to me.  Shame on me.

not implying that all scripture has "reason" but the 144,000 had reason. John did list each tribe of Israel, stating specifically 12,000 of each tribe. i missed that

Rev 7:5  Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand:
Rev 7:6  Of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand:
Rev 7:7  Of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand:
Rev 7:8  Of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand: Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.



Eugene

Whats even more interesting is that the tribe of LEVI is placed there and they were to have NO inheritance whatsoever. they only had the priesthood. It's expressed in Judges 18, Dan is singled out falling into idolatry, so maybe that's why Levi is all of sudden listed here and Dan wasnt. i did notice there were still 12 listed. and Mannaseh is listed, the SON of Joseph, and Ephraim isnt... idolatry befalls both Ephraim and Dan (hosea 4:17 and Judges 17-18) and in that same Judges18 text, that Micah, with the graven images is an Ephraimite.....what's even more interesting, Dan uses 600 armed men to take that land (which they did in sin) Judges 18:11. AND the takes the Levite Priest from Micah...... hmmm...hmmm all interesting. 600, dan, levite, ephraimite.....

and Gina and Truth; i think you both are putting the pieces together

thanks for the replies!

thanks for all the replies

[eagle]

the question is still; how does these numbers, count to be the number of the beast??

The word that is translated count is the greek word psephizo, which only occurs two time in the new testament. The other place is in:

Luke 14:28   For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?
Psephizo is also translated reckon, so the spiritual meaning,the way I see it, of Rev 13:8  is let him who has understanding (the mind, comprising alike the faculties of perceiving and understanding and those of feeling, judging, determining) reckon/ take into account the number of the beast
Like David we have to face Goliath!!


   

[Gina]

That makes sense, Eagle.  to me it's like God's saying:  Consider that I made mankind on the "sixth day" of creation, and creation was not yet complete as God had not rested from His works and man, without Rest (Christ) is not complete -- hence, the beast.

[newgene87]

the question is still; how does these numbers, count to be the number of the beast??

The word that is translated count is the greek word psephizo, which only occurs two time in the new testament. The other place is in:

Luke 14:28   For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have [sufficient] to finish [it]?
Psephizo is also translated reckon, so the spiritual meaning,the way I see it, of Rev 13:8  is let him who has understanding (the mind, comprising alike the faculties of perceiving and understanding and those of feeling, judging, determining) reckon/ take into account the number of the beast
Like David we have to face Goliath!!

wowsers....that does make sense. that just blew me away. see, i'm raising a 3 year old; and teaching him to "count", i'm thinking "1.....2......3...*no not 8*....4...5" and so on  . so yeaaaaa i get. thanks Eagle. i can see the spiritual significance in that. God is saying take to account and reckon the number of the beast. and as truth revealed, God saying it is YOU YOU YOU without ME ME ME.

[eagle]

666 in greek is Chi (600) -xi (60) stigma(6)

1 Samuel 17:4  And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

1 Samuel 17:7 And the staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam; and his spear's head weighed six hundred shekels of iron: and one bearing a shield went before him.

Goliath means splendour in hebrew.
Rev 13:3  ...and all the world wondered after the beast
Champion in hebrew is derived from Iysh which means Man. You can go on and on with this. But better yet check out what the Lord did for and through David in Davids fight against Goliath. David means beloved. That´s us !!!

[Craig]

Such wisdom John, I'm impressed.

Craig

[eggi]

6 + 6 + 6= 18

18 x 7 = 126

126 divided by 3 = 42

42 + 7 = 49

The square root of 49 = 7

Bingo 

Excellent. Glad we now know how to count. And I was under the impression that we are the beast or that VISA was the beast.

[Marky Mark]

Man was created on day six in Genesis along with the other beasts of the earth. That in and of it self should give us a good reason why we also are called beasts.The number six is that symbolic number of the beast [mankind] because man was created on the sixth day.

Gen 1:27 And creating is the Elohim humanity in His image. In the image of the Elohim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.
Gen 1:31 ...the sixth day.

As far as God is concerned we have no preeminence above a beast...

Ecc 3:18  I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
Ecc 3:19  For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.


The number three in Scripture is symbolic for the process of completion...

Luk 13:32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

and judgement...

Exo 5:3 And they said, The God of the Hebrews hath met with us: let us go, we pray thee, three days' journey into the desert, and sacrifice unto the LORD our God; lest he fall upon us with pestilence, or with the sword.

Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
Rev 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Gen 40:19 Yet within three days shall Pharaoh lift up thy head from off thee, and shall hang thee on a tree; and the birds shall eat thy flesh from off thee.

Exo 10:22 And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:
Exo 15:22 So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water.

Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the a@@, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

What I can see from Scripture, three sixes are a symbolic way of seeing things Spiritually. Mankind/the beast [six] must be made complete[three] through the process and progression,into judgement. Hence the 6-6-6 symbol is for those who have eyes and ears to see things Spiritual.

Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Mat 13:15 ...lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.


Hope this helps some.

Peace...Mark

[doug]

What I can see from Scripture, three sixes are a symbolic way of seeing things Spiritually. Mankind/the beast [six] must be made complete[three] through the process and progression,into judgement.Hence the 6-6-6 symbol is for those who have eyes and ears to see things Spiritual.

Mark, I liked your great scriptural help into the understanding of Revelation 13:18. Your logic in using the number of the beast from the Genesis account was good and God's use of the number 3 was especially helpful.

I understand and agree with the first half of your quote but maybe I am misunderstanding the last highlighted part.

How would that statement then relate to the elect believers of the passage in Revelation 13:17 and also to 14:9-10?

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Isn't Wisdom for us who can see what the symbol 666 means but is it not put upon the unbeliever whose eyes and ears haven't been opened?

I'm sorry if I have misinterpreted what you had to say in the last part or your quote and maybe some additional clarification would help.

doug

[tinknocker]

Ray pointed out that man is the beast. The reference in Rev. is describing the beast in 3 parts.

1) what we were before the fall.
2) What we are now.
3) what we will become.

The full cycle of the beast= mankind

tinknocker

[bpenelli]

From: http://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

Let me give you the history of the world including all future prophecies, in one sentence:

God perfectly planned and recorded His creation of the heavens, angels, the earth, and carnal humanity, who sinned wickedly and were all drowned (save a few); who then reached for their own heaven at the tower of Babel in rebellion to the God Who then scattered them (save a few); who later built Babylon into a great pagan empire which God destroyed (save a few); who have since built many wicked and fornicating Babylons collectively called, Mystery Babylon The Great, whom God warns before utterly destroying again (save a few); and of 'the Few' God is creating a New Spiritual Humanity of Son-and-Daughter Saviours like unto Jesus, in New Jerusalem on spiritual Mt. Zion, were ALL will be redeemed (NOT just a few); that God may be "ALL in All"!

Maybe I could shorten it down a smidgen, but there it is. The reality of most of the symbolism of Revelation is contained in that one sentence. "But Mr. Smith, I don't see '666' anywhere in your sentence." You don't? I do. I see 666 followed by 777 in nearly every phrase of that sentence. "He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the Churches!"

From: http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6452.0.html

Mark 4:11  ...Unto YOU it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
 
Well wait a minute we have just learned something all over there again. What are the parables about? The called and the chosen, the many and the few.

[Marky Mark]

Isn't Wisdom for us who can see what the symbol 666 means but is it not put upon the unbeliever whose eyes and ears haven't been opened?

Hi Doug.

Yes, I would say that you are correct.The Lord certainly chooses whom He wants for His own,many are called but few are chosen,down through the ages,the calling out of His elect. Wisdom is for those whom He draws unto Himself. Without Gods grace teaching us we would not be aware of anything of the Spirit. But we must remember that Jesus is the Savior of all people,not just a few,eventually all eyes and ears will be opened,now in judgement,or later,in the LOF. Judgement will certainly make pure all people of all time, in His time,not ours.

I myself feel blessed that my Lord has caused me to understand some things of the Spirit. In times past,just as others here,I did not have a clue about His Word [but I thought I was a believer] and was chest deep in the babylonian system of things,thinking all along that I had a handle on Spiritual matters, but in reality, I was yet a babe in Christ. I feel it safe to say that all of us here have been through some of the same. Until He comes and lives within our hearts and minds, we are yet carnal, and dead to Him.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.


We must all go through all things,according to the Scriptures,even as others. Because all things come alike to all...

1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Ecc 9:1  For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
Ecc 9:2  All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.

When we come to understand our journey in our walk with the Lord,its easy to see,and hear,that nothing is of ourselves,but rather,it is His gift from God.So yes,there are unbelievers whose eyes and ears haven't been opened,but for now,our time is at hand,for the children of Faith.

Eph 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7  That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


Hope this helps.

Peace...Mark

[doug]

Thanks Family....

I Got It !!!    I Just Wanted To See If We Were All In Agreement !   And We Are! 

(it's had to interpret others meanings sometimes without some additional corroboration)

Blessings All,

doug

[newgene87]

yea...you all are AMAZING . im blown away by the wisdom displayed here from these complex numbers. but i got. thank you all.  Regardless, Humility and Love are my focus now.

thank you all

[santgem]

THE NUMBER 666

"Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the NUMBER OF THE BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six [666]" (Rev. 13:18).

Is this indeed what the Greek manuscripts of Rev. 13:18 state? No, it is not.

The Greek word used when only man is meant (always excluding woman), is aner. But the Greek word translated "man" in Rev. 13:18 is not aner, but rather the word anthropos, which means "a human being, male or female." Strong's Concordant.

Furthermore, it is not the number of "a" anything. It is just the number of human or of mankind! Even the Revised Standard Version translators saw this and therefore, states, "It's number is six hundred sixty-six." The number of the wild beast is not the number of "a" man, but rather the number of "man" or "mankind."


Brothers and sisters, when  reading the papers of Mr. Ray and try to look the It's in the Revised Standard Version, nowhere i can find it.
Can you please enlighten me this word and what is the significance of this word. What version of the Bible can we see the word IT's?

[Dave in Tenn]

I don't have access to the RSV.

To note:  The RSV is a revised version of the King James, so that is most probably why Ray mentioned it.)

These translations also render it "its":

The ISV (which is a  revision of the King James, if I'm not mistaken), the LITV, the YLT, and the CLV.



(corrected to make up for being half-asleep earlier).   

[santgem]

THE NUMBER 666

"Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding count the NUMBER OF THE BEAST: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six [666]" (Rev. 13:18).

Is this indeed what the Greek manuscripts of Rev. 13:18 state? No, it is not.

The Greek word used when only man is meant (always excluding woman), is aner. But the Greek word translated "man" in Rev. 13:18 is not aner, but rather the word anthropos, which means "a human being, male or female." Strong's Concordant.

Furthermore, it is not the number of "a" anything. It is just the number of human or of mankind! Even the Revised Standard Version translators saw this and therefore, states, "It's number is six hundred sixty-six." The number of the wild beast is not the number of "a" man, but rather the number of "man" or "mankind."


Brothers and sisters, when  reading the papers of Mr. Ray and try to look the It's in the Revised Standard Version, nowhere i can find it.
Can you please enlighten me this word and what is the significance of this word. What version of the Bible can we see the word IT's?

There are many online versions of the various bible translations.  One I use is The Blue Letter Bible at blueletterbible.org.

Enter Rev 13:18.  Then click the Letter "V" on the verse, which will give you several bible translations of the verse.

The RSV version of Rev 13:18 says, "...its number is six hundred and sixty-six."

I have already visited the site but nowhere i find the apostrophe in its. In English language(which of course i am not expert as obvious) Ray mentioned IT's with an apostrophe.
IT's means It has, and its means possessive form of it and varies in meaning.

[Craig]

The revised standard uses the word "its" without the apostrophe.  Perhaps the apostrophe is a typo by Ray.  We can't ask him but that is what I assume.

Craig

[arion]

Remember also that the Greek language has no punctuation in it.  Whenever punctuation is used it's always the work of the translators.