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The Law is Spiritual??
newgene87:
okay. i was doing my nightly handy dandy forum-search for key words and i stumbled upon an old discussion. A person had a question for dennis regarding a statement Ray made in one of his audios. And i stand on that question; Did Ray ever write or expound on the Law (of Moses) being spiritual??
"For we know, that the law (of Moses?) is spiritual..." (Romans 7:14)
the past 4 months i've been really interested in the scriptures, the written Torah; simply for learning and instruction in the word. seeing Paul says, "are you...having the forming of knowledge and truth in the law" (Romans 2:19). But seeing that post, i wonder what Ray actually meant, is the Law of Moses spiritual??? I ask that in view of what the writer in Hebrews 7:16-19 said, calling the law, "the law of a carnal commandment" and "for a setting aside does indeed take place, of a foregoing commandment, by reason of its OWN WEAKNESS and UNPROFITABLENESS, - for THE LAW PERFECTED NOTHING...". sooooooo, if the Law (of Moses) is SPIRITUAL, why is weak and unprofitable? even Paul mentions, "For what was impossible by the law in that it was weak through the flesh..." (Romans 8:3). Any clarifications? expounding? would be lovely accepted. Or i could be overlooking the entire thing. Thank you
--- Quote from: walt123 on February 24, 2011, 12:07:32 AM ---Hello,Dennis
I was listening to the audio tape,biblestudy April 07,which ray said he was going
to write about the law of moses,and that the law is spiritual,I guess in more detail.
Did ray ever write on just this subject?
Walt.
Re: Dates To Remember . . . . . . . . . . Biblestudy April 2007
Now I allowed someone in our midst to influence me in a wrong way, because I didn't have time to look at these things. I didn't have time to study every word and every phrase, every sentence, every verse, every doctrine in the Bible, all at the same time in great detail. This is just unfathomable, so I had somebody that we allowed to put some material on our site even. Because I thought some of it was correct, even though I had a couple of problems with some things. I mean the law paper that is no longer up there, I had a problem with that before it was put up and I let it slide, to my own chagrin. Because I mentioned at the time, but you are not covering in here the aspect that the law is spiritual. The law of Moses is spiritual!
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual
It was, ‘no Ray, no that is talking about the spiritual law is spiritual…’ You know I let it slide. I corrected a lot of stuff in that paper and some of that stuff in that paper was mine anyway. That long chart of the Old Testament and the New Testament, the old covenant and the new covenant, the differences, it was several pages of material. But I let that slide.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 11:11:01 AM by Kat »
THE LAW OF MOSES
But when I write about the law one day, I will have to do a paper on the law and trust me you are going to see Romans 7:14. “…we know that the law…” What law? It’s mentioned about ten times in that chapter… “the law of Moses…” “the law of Moses…” “the law of Moses…” “For we know that the law is spiritual…” Oh but we are not talking about the law of Moses? Oh yes we are, it didn’t changes gears there in mid stream.
--- End quote ---
oh oh oh, if this was answered in another discussion; since its difficult to search through this forum, someone can just send me that link ;). orrrrr inputs can be brought upon, ya kno, below here :D. thanks again family
Eugene
mharrell08:
FYI: Lake of Fire Part 16D3: (http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D3.htm). Look for the header 'WHAT DOES THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT REALLY TEACH US?'
newgene87:
that you for that direction! 8)
Now a question regarding a statemement Ray said, "Lets be clear on one thing before we enter this study. You will find the phrase, New Covenant, New Testament, and New Commandment in the Greek Scriptures, But you will not find the phrase "New LAW" anywhere. There are "new commandments" regarding that law, the but law is the same, as it is "spiritual" and therefore is not "temporal" (2Co 4:18) -end quote
so, it's apparent we wont find a new law, but we do find a "change" of the law, or "removing" of the law...
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law..." (Hebrews 7:12), wouldnt that make the law "temporal" being that it was to be "changed", "removed"??
but thank you
Gina:
14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,
16 who has become such [according to the likeness of Mechizedek] NOT on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.
17 For it is attested of Him,
“YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER
ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.”
18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness
19 (for the [physical] Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
20 And inasmuch as it was not without an oath
21(for they indeed became priests without an oath, but He with an oath through the One who said to Him, “THE LORD HAS SWORN AND WILL NOT CHANGE HIS MIND, ‘YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER’”);
22 so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
__________________
So on the one hand, there is a new covenant but not a new law. But there is a change in the law. It's like what? I thought he just said there was no new law!
But then I just realized -- a change in law does not make a new [another] law; it's simply changed. There's a difference.
And the change in the law is in the way that it must be kept and applied -- no longer physically / outwardly but inwardly. It would only "change" or be "different" to them in their eyes seeing how it never occurred to the Hebrew that the law must be written on their hearts and minds, if it was to ever be correctly understood, which would necessarily lead to having an HONEST relationship with God and man.
There would be no more of this trying to keep the law externally in order to be right with God, because God doesn't save us on account of how good we are. Besides, we can't make ourselves be good; though, we can try by "painting the face" but sooner or later the paint [mask] comes off.
God purposely made them keep the law physically because He wants to show people how spiritually weak we are when WE try to obey Him. Besides, God knows that keeping physical commands, even if they could be kept only makes a person go "Wow! I am the bees knees ya'll!!" [Ref. Saul]
But then God knocked him off his high horse. Whoopsie daisy! Pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.
That's when Paul realized he could keep the law outwardly and STILL not be right with God!
That's how he understood that his change of heart towards the Christians came not from anything good in himself but from God. [Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil. Jer. 13:23 ]
But the most fascinating thing is when you remember that God always desired mercy, He never desired sacrifice to make ourselves right with Him. [ Ref. Abraham and taking his son to the altar.]
Who wants to bet Abraham welcomed the new covenant? Jesus even said: Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad. John 8:56
I hope that helps a little. I hold out hope that someone else will come in and make it clearer for you if I've made a mess of things. :)
newgene87:
oh no, you made it clear. it was like i was seeing it thru a certain type of lens...took them off, and now its like, "ohhhhhh". I was seeing that a little off (okay...way off) but i get it now. The Law IS Spiritual, no doubt. Thanks Gina!
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