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Author Topic: Spiritual body seperate from flesh  (Read 19880 times)

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Brett

  • Guest
Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« on: July 24, 2006, 02:00:21 AM »

Hello,

I am wondering about the spiritual body are not include flesh and blood (another flesh)? After God raised Jesus from dead, His flesh was vanish (but not with decay or corruption), and then He appeared another form in Mark 16:12 is flesh? Because flesh and blood will not inherit kingdom of God same as Jesus' flesh cannot inherit kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:44, 50)? I would be appreciate to share if you have knowledge of this.

Thanks!  :D

Brett
« Last Edit: July 24, 2006, 02:03:57 AM by Brett »
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2006, 12:33:51 AM »

Brett, I have been giving your question a fair amount of thought. I am perhaps the least qualified to attempt to answer your question but I will try.

1Cr 15:42
  • So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
   
1Cr 15:43
  • It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
 
1Cr 15:44
  • It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 
[/color]
Just what is the spiritual body? Does it mean a non-material body? Maybe not. We read that the spiritual body is incorruptible, is glorious and powerful; imperishable.

What does Luke say about the spiritual body?

Luk 24:67 
  • And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.

Luk 24:37 
  • But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

Luk 24:38
  • And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

Luk 24:39  
  • Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have[/i].
[/color]

Do you see the difference in these two scriptures? Jesus's body was raised as a spiritual body, a perfect non natural body. (1Cr 15:44) However, Jesus himself said that it had flesh and bones, something in which a spirit cannot have.

1Cr 15:50
  •   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

[/color]

So what is meant by Paul when he says that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God? Could it be that "flesh and blood" is another term given to our earthly, natural and sinful bodies from our lineage to Adam? As Christ is the last Adam and his body perfect and incorruptible spiritual body then so too must we receive such a spiritual body, free from sin, death disease and all vices of our natural body.

I feel Paul supports this in his very next verse.

1Cr 15:51
  • Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

 1Cr 15:52
  •   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.   

[/color]
Changed into what? A spirit? or a Spiritual body? What does Paul Say?

1Cr 15:49
  • And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 

[/color]
There you have it Brett, I will let you draw your own conclusions.

Comments welome and if I have posted something I should not have, I am truly sorry.

Christ is the giver of truth

Darren
 
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rocky

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2006, 01:29:09 AM »

Does anyone know when do those in the LOF get their incorrupt, glorified, spiritual body??? 
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2006, 03:17:31 AM »

Brett, I have been giving your question a fair amount of thought. I am perhaps the least qualified to attempt to answer your question but I will try.

1Cr 15:42
  • So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
   
1Cr 15:43
  • It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
 
1Cr 15:44
  • It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 
[/color]
Just what is the spiritual body? Does it mean a non-material body? Maybe not. We read that the spiritual body is incorruptible, is glorious and powerful; imperishable.

What does Luke say about the spiritual body?

Luk 24:67 
  • And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.

Luk 24:37 
  • But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

Luk 24:38
  • And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

Luk 24:39  
  • Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have[/i].
[/color]

Do you see the difference in these two scriptures? Jesus's body was raised as a spiritual body, a perfect non natural body. (1Cr 15:44) However, Jesus himself said that it had flesh and bones, something in which a spirit cannot have.

1Cr 15:50
  •   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

[/color]

So what is meant by Paul when he says that "flesh and blood" cannot inherit the kingdom of God? Could it be that "flesh and blood" is another term given to our earthly, natural and sinful bodies from our lineage to Adam? As Christ is the last Adam and his body perfect and incorruptible spiritual body then so too must we receive such a spiritual body, free from sin, death disease and all vices of our natural body.

I feel Paul supports this in his very next verse.

1Cr 15:51
  • Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

 1Cr 15:52
  •   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.   

[/color]
Changed into what? A spirit? or a Spiritual body? What does Paul Say?

1Cr 15:49
  • And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 

[/color]
There you have it Brett, I will let you draw your own conclusions.

Comments welome and if I have posted something I should not have, I am truly sorry.

Christ is the giver of truth

Darren
 

Darren,

Thank you for your time to write with verses and good explain. One question, Jesus rise from dead and He has spiritual body but invisible because Spirit is invisible, then Jesus somehow become like physical so the disciples can see Him. He was not literal flesh and blood but look like a form of body so that disciples can handle Him or touch His body. Am I right understand?

Again, thank you for the help.

Brett


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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2006, 09:31:51 AM »

Brett asked:

One question, Jesus rise from dead and He has spiritual body but invisible because Spirit is invisible, then Jesus somehow become like physical so the disciples can see Him. He was not literal flesh and blood but look like a form of body so that disciples can handle Him or touch His body.



Brett, all I know is what the scriptures state. :)

Luk 24:37 
  • But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

Luk 24:38
  • And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

Luk 24:39   
  • Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


Was Jesus lying? Did not Paul say that Jesus became a "quickening spirit?" There has been much contention regarding what happened to Jesus' body. How come the disciples could see and feel it. I have a hard time believing that Jesus deceived his trusted loyal followers. There must be more to a "quickening spirit?" than an invisible being/force.

Strongs Concordance (2227)

zoopoieo {dzo-op-oy-eh'-o}

Outline of Biblical Usage

1) to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

    a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
    b) to restore to life
    c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life
    d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing



I believe with all my heart that these words are to instruct us.

1Cr 15:42
  • So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 
  • It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 

1Cr 15:44 
  • It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


That there was a body is a given, is it a natural body? NO! :)   
Is it perfect, imperishable and incorruptible? YES!
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!

Did the spiritual body ascend to heaven? I believe so, but will stand corrected.

Rom 8:11
  • But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you


Once again, comments welcomes
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 11:06:57 AM by YellowStone »
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2006, 08:25:37 PM »

Brett asked:

One question, Jesus rise from dead and He has spiritual body but invisible because Spirit is invisible, then Jesus somehow become like physical so the disciples can see Him. He was not literal flesh and blood but look like a form of body so that disciples can handle Him or touch His body.



Brett, all I know is what the scriptures state. :)

Luk 24:37 
  • But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

Luk 24:38
  • And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

Luk 24:39   
  • Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.


Was Jesus lying? Did not Paul say that Jesus became a "quickening spirit?" There has been much contention regarding what happened to Jesus' body. How come the disciples could see and feel it. I have a hard time believing that Jesus deceived his trusted loyal followers. There must be more to a "quickening spirit?" than an invisible being/force.

Strongs Concordance (2227)

zoopoieo {dzo-op-oy-eh'-o}

Outline of Biblical Usage

1) to produce alive, begat or bear living young

2) to cause to live, make alive, give life

    a) by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
    b) to restore to life
    c) to give increase of life: thus of physical life
    d) of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life

3) metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing



I believe with all my heart that these words are to instruct us.

1Cr 15:42
  • So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 
  • It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 

1Cr 15:44 
  • It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


That there was a body is a given, is it a natural body? NO! :)   
Is it perfect, imperishable and incorruptible? YES!
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!

Did the spiritual body ascend to heaven? I believe so, but will stand corrected.

Rom 8:11
  • But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you


Once again, comments welcomes

Daren,

Thanks for showing the scriptures.
You said:
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!

You mean our old flesh and blood will bring death then in future we will resurrection with new flesh and blood as spiritual body? Since the scripture say flesh and blood cannot inherit the kindgom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). It didn't say "old flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." It seem to me that old and new flesh/blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. The spiritual body are not the same as flesh and blood from what I understand in 1 Cor. chapter 15. So, did Jesus' reserrection have both flesh/blood and spiritual body, too? I am not saying Jesus is lying, no, but I am just hungry for His truth to clear my mind and hope someone can help if God willing.

In Rom. 8:11 didn't say anything about us raise from dead with mortal, but this mean that if Jesus never raised from dead, then the Spirit (Helper/Comforter) will never come in us, but God did raise Jesus from dead now we have His Spirit to our spiritual while live on earth. Let's look from Rotherham in Rom. 8:11, if you don't mind  ;):

If, moreover, the Spirit of him that raised Jesus from among the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised from among the dead Christ Jesus, shall make alive even your death-doomed bodies, through means of his indwelling Spirit within you.

Brett  :)
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2006, 09:55:53 PM »


Brett wrote:

Daren,

Thanks for showing the scriptures.
You said:
Does it have flesh that can be touched? YES!

You mean our old flesh and blood will bring death then in future we will resurrection with new flesh and blood as spiritual body? Since the scripture say flesh and blood cannot inherit the kindgom of God (1 Cor. 15:50). It didn't say "old flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."


Yep, it sure didn't mention anything about new or old flesh. But let's look at what the scriptures do say:

Luk 24:39
  • Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[/color]
Here Jesus is asserting to those who doubted that it is he himself. He said to them to touch and hold him. Then he said that he could not be a spirit for a spirit does not have flesh and bones. What did Jesus have then? He had the spiritual body in which he was resurrected, the old natural body had passed away.

1Cr 15:44
  • It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
[/color]

So are we clear on the fact the body in which the disciples and Mary saw, was a spiritual body. Not a spirit, but a spiritual body, that is free from sin, perfect, incorruptible and inperishable fit for life in his kingdom. Why would Jesus need such a body? Because it is the fulfillment of scripture:

1Cr 15:42
  • So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43
  • It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[/color]

What was sown? It was his natural body. What was raised? his spiritual body. :)

Brett wrote:

It seem to me that old and new flesh/blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. The spiritual body are not the same as flesh and blood from what I understand in 1 Cor. chapter 15. So, did Jesus' reserrection have both flesh/blood and spiritual body, too? I am not saying Jesus is lying, no, but I am just hungry for His truth to clear my mind and hope someone can help if God willing.



You are right, I do not believe that "flesh and blood" body is the same as a spiritual body, but Jesus's body must have been raised.

In John 2:19-21, Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, 'It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?' But He was speaking of the temple of his body." 

Notice that Jesus was speaking of His body.  Remember what Jesus said in Luk 24:39 "for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

He did not say Flesh and Blood. Nor were we given any evidence of blood on his wounds, because Jesus’ blood was shed on the cross.  Paul wrote of this:

Hbr 9:12
  • Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. 
[/color]

Did you notice: but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place. He paid the price with his blood and was therefore (I believe) raised into a bloodless spiritual body. This now shows how he could ascend into the holy place. :)


In Rom. 8:11 didn't say anything about us raise from dead with mortal, but this mean that if Jesus never raised from dead, then the Spirit (Helper/Comforter) will never come in us, but God did raise Jesus from dead now we have His Spirit to our spiritual while live on earth. Let's look from Rotherham in Rom. 8:11, if you don't mind  :

If, moreover, the Spirit of him that raised Jesus from among the dead dwelleth in you, he that raised from among the dead Christ Jesus, shall make alive even your death-doomed bodies, through means of his indwelling Spirit within you.

Brett 


No problem here, we can take comfort that Jesus gave his blood for us and died so that we might be saved.

This has been a great discussion. Did I help your understanding? :)

With Love,

Darren
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nightmare sasuke

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2006, 06:43:18 AM »

He did not say Flesh and Blood. Nor were we given any evidence of blood on his wounds, because Jesus’ blood was shed on the cross.  Paul wrote of this:

Another reason for this is because nephesh (soul) is in the blood, and Christ was raised a life-giving spirit, not a chay nephesh (living soul).

PS. I like your posts so far!
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jerreye

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2006, 08:27:42 PM »

Hi all,

Isn't it true that Jesus did rise from the dead as a "life-giving SPIRIT"?

And, doesn't it say that a SPIRIT hath NOT flesh and bone (."..like you see/perceive that I/Jesus have.")?

I think if you add this all up, Jesus only APPEARED as a body of flesh and bone for the sake of the people. A natural man cannot see an invisible spirit being, thus Jesus had to APPEAR as a man of flesh and bone, so that men could actually perceive Him (not that He was literal flesh and bone). This is just what I see in the scriptures...is this what others here see as well?

Cheers,
Jeremy
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Deedle

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2006, 09:17:55 PM »

Eph 5:30 
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Hmmmm...

Deedle  :)
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hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2006, 09:22:30 PM »

I agree Jeremy, it is apparent that He could change his appearence and/or their perception of His appearence as they thought He was a stranger in town unaware of all that recently transpired;

Luk 24:18  And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?
 
Luk 24:19  And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and al the people:


Joe
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ned

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2006, 09:40:27 PM »

Hi all,I think if you add this all up, Jesus only APPEARED as a body of flesh and bone for the sake of the people.

Hi,
I agree, I think Jesus appeared as a body of flesh and bone merely for the sake of the carnal people!

Verse:
Luk 24:37  But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

I believe they SUPPOSED that they had seen a spirit, because they knew Jesus HAD DIED.  I would certainly think I seen a spirit if my late father appeared before me.  So, Jesus had to explain to them:

Luk 24:38  And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
  Jesus had to come in flesh and bones so they could SEE him.

I think there is only ONE KIND of flesh for humans:
1Co 15:39  "All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds."

Mark16:12 "...He appeared in another form..."  I think maybe the "other form" is still in the (human) flesh, but simply appearing as if someone else, because in Lukes' account, Luke 24:15-18 "And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. But their eyes were holden that they should not known him.....Are thou only a stranger in Jerusalem..."  they just didn't recognize him, he appeared as just another man to them.

Marie
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jerreye

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2006, 11:13:16 PM »

Eph 5:30 
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Hmmmm...

Deedle  :)

 :-\ I am not too certain what your stance is on the subject, Deedle. Do you believe that Jesus IS literal flesh and bones? Maybe I am miss-reading you  ;D

If this verse is to be taken literally, then am I a LITERAL member (maybe a hang-nail?) of His LITERAL flesh (ie: "...we are MEMBERS of His flesh and of His bones")? I see that as being spiritual. I believe I am a member of His spiritual body (hopfully at least a spiritual hang-nail!).

Cheers,
Jeremy
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YellowStone

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2006, 01:22:25 AM »

I see that not all agree with my take on this.

If Jesus only "appeared" to them in the form of body so that they could see him, why would he have corrected his followers for thinking he was a spirit, for this is EXACTLY what they thought.

Luk 24:37  [/b]
  • But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

One cannot ignore the fact that "they" thought Jesus was a spirit. (they could see him) Jesus, could have said: "Yes, it is I" But he didn't, he instead corrected them.

Luk 24:38 
  • And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
[/color]
He asked (I assume) why are such thoughts or thoughts such as this arising in your hearts. Why would he correct them?
Why then would he continue on and say:

Luk 24:39 
  • Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; [/color] for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[/color]
Please do not ignore the following scripture, for I feel it is the key to much.

1Cr 15:44
  • It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a[/color] spiritual body.

What is the importance of the "body"? For clearly Jesus emphasized it. Well, it could be that it died and was raised as a glorious, spiritual body as promised. :)

In John 2:19-21, Jesus said, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, 'It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?' But He was speaking of the temple of his body." 

Even Paul speaks of the bodily form of Christ long after the resurrection and assension.

Col 2:9 
  • For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells[/color] bodily,(RSV)

Strong's Greek Lexicon
Bodily: 4984. somatikos so-mat-ee-kos' from 4983; corporeal or physical:--bodily. (My Strongs Exhaustive Concordance supports this rendering)

corporeal: having material or physical form or substance

And again in his first letter to Timothy, Paul states:

1Ti 2:4 
  • Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 1Ti 2:5 
  • For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men,[/color] the man Christ Jesus;

 1Ti 2:6 
  • Who gave himself a ransom (his blood) for all, to be testified in due time.
[/color]

I pray to God that I am being true to his words. I do not discount the fact that Jesus either changed the form of his body or prevented those seeing him from recognizing him.

But I truly believe that words such as: "I agree, I think Jesus appeared as a body of flesh and bone merely for the sake of the carnal people!" (sorry Marie) is taking liberty over what both Jesus and Paul instructed.

Literal can only be applied to the spiritual body of Jesus, for as Paul said:

1Cr 15:51 
  • Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[/color]
He didn't understand it (neither do I) but he understood that we will all be changed, but not yet.

May the God of us all give us wisdom and understanding.

With much Love.

Darren
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 01:32:29 AM by YellowStone »
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orion77

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2006, 01:46:00 AM »

(1Co 15:50)  And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood is not able to inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

(1Co 15:51)  Behold, I speak a mystery to you: we shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed.

(1Co 15:52)  In a moment, in a glance of an eye, at the last trumpet; for a trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed.

(1Co 15:53)  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

(1Co 15:54)  But when this corruptible shall put on incorruption, and this mortal shall put on immortality, then will take place the Word that has been written, "Death was swallowed up in victory." Isa. 25:8

(1Co 15:55)  "O death, where is your sting? Hades, where is your victory?" Hos. 13:14

(1Co 15:56)  Now the sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the Law;

(1Co 15:57)  but thanks be to God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

(1Co 15:58)  So that, my beloved brothers, you be firm, immovable, abounding in the work of the Lord always, knowing that your labor is not without fruit in the Lord.


We have passed, from death (sleep), to life, and this life is in the Christ.  We have been changed, new life, born again, new creation, to the Life and Light of Jesus.  The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law, but we have victory through the Christ, so we are no longer under the law, but grace. 

Here in is why the second death can not have power over us, because we have already died, and now are alive in Christ, because our spirit witnesses to us, that Christ is in us.  And to know Christ is life eternal.  Some now, some later, but each in his own time, for the day will come that God will be all in all.

God bless,

Gary
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jerreye

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2006, 03:16:34 AM »

Hi Darren,

"a SPIRIT does NOT have flesh or bones..."

If the scriptures state that Jesus IS now a SPIRIT, then wouldn't this then prove that He is NOT (and for the sake of the integrity of the scriptures, CAN NOT be) literal flesh and bone?

"the last Adam was raised a life-giving (quickening) SPIRIT"

"neither flesh nor blood may enter into God's Kingdom..."

Does this not pass the two or three witness test of establishing a truth?

This is just how I see it, bro!
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Deedle

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2006, 01:48:45 PM »

Quote
I am not too certain what your stance is on the subject, Deedle. Do you believe that Jesus IS literal flesh and bones? Maybe I am miss-reading you  Grin

If this verse is to be taken literally, then am I a LITERAL member (maybe a hang-nail?) of His LITERAL flesh (ie: "...we are MEMBERS of His flesh and of His bones")? I see that as being spiritual. I believe I am a member of His spiritual body (hopfully at least a spiritual hang-nail!).

Cheers,
Jeremy

I was just looking at how "flesh and bone" is used in scripture as opposed to "flesh and blood".  It appears to me that "flesh and bone" or just "bone" for that matter has a much different spiritual significance than "flesh and blood" or "blood".  Run "bone" & "bones" in esword and you will see what I mean.  Since no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation (2Pe 1:20), I was just looking to see what other scriptures have to say on the matter.

Christ appeared after his resurection in a body of flesh and bones.  No mention of blood.  The soul of the flesh is in the blood.

Lev 17:11  For the life [soul] of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

I just think there is much more to the "flesh and bones" than meets the eye.  I'll keep looking.

Also, the words "of his flesh, and of his bones" from Eph 5:30 is not authentic scripture according to some textual critics of the greek manuscripts.  I thought that was interesting as well

Deedle  :D
« Last Edit: July 27, 2006, 01:50:40 PM by Deedle »
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jerreye

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2006, 02:09:09 PM »

Hi Deedle, interesting indeed. Amazing how much "scripture" really isn't scripture at all.

Let us know what you come up with on your "flesh and bones" study. To me, it simply tells me that he did indeed shed His blood, therefore, all He appeared as was "flesh and bones". Interesting study for sure.

Cheers,
Jeremy
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2006, 01:19:17 AM »

Hi all,

Isn't it true that Jesus did rise from the dead as a "life-giving SPIRIT"?

And, doesn't it say that a SPIRIT hath NOT flesh and bone (."..like you see/perceive that I/Jesus have.")?

I think if you add this all up, Jesus only APPEARED as a body of flesh and bone for the sake of the people. A natural man cannot see an invisible spirit being, thus Jesus had to APPEAR as a man of flesh and bone, so that men could actually perceive Him (not that He was literal flesh and bone). This is just what I see in the scriptures...is this what others here see as well?

Cheers,
Jeremy

Jeremy,

Yes that is what I see in the scriptures of what you see.

Brett
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Spiritual body seperate from flesh
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 01:34:01 AM »

Eph 5:30 
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Hmmmm...

Deedle  :)

Hi Deedle,

Is this verse you show is from KJV? If so, I checked CLV and Rotherham. These were attempt straightforward from the Greek manuscript of Eph. 5:30,

     CLV
      for we are members of His body.

     Rotherham's
     Because, members, are we of his body;—

To me, the Greek manuscript didn't write 'flesh and bones' in Eph. 5:30 but 'body'. I doubt is literal flesh and bones.

Hope this help you.

Brett :D

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