The Law is Spiritual??

[newgene87]

Hello,
PS. I was also told that the Pharisees never actually kept the Law of Moses/Torah, and only parts of the ORAL law which were not to heavy. This is supposedly supported by historical facts. Have anyone of you heard about this theory, and know what facts are being referred to?





I have not heard that?So I could not answer that.Seems like a pharisee to me though.They do it on every corner today.

But it seems to me whatever they did believe and didn't do.They knew enough of the Torah to know what they should be doing.








Joh 8:3  And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4  They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 8:5  Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
Joh 8:6  This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
Joh 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 8:8  And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 8:9  And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 8:10  When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

Verse -5-"Now Moses in the law/Torah"..JThey played Hypocrite at least that they knew and performed it.

Notice verse -7.."He who without sin among you......."They were breaking the law/Torah by not bringing two or three witness to the trial if you will.So, whatever their motivation in life was ...That Torah was doing its job!

And as they didnt know that they were testing to see if the Lamb was without blemish.Before it was Sacrificed.One day it will be revealved to all.Jerry

and not just that, they actually didnt know the WHOLE Law because the consequence of Adultery is differentiated in the Law. Compare Deuteronomy 22:24 and Numbers 5:11-33. One speaking of an espoused woman getting stoned WITH the man and the other, a wife, who went through a process of purification by the Priest. That most likely explains why and what Jesus was writing on the ground...

"and the priest shall write these curses in a book, and He shall blot out with the bitter water" (Num 5:23)

Jesus showed Wisdom of the Law and Grace by His Law. So yea, i can see that they never actually kept the Law, John 8 proved they werent even knowledgable of the law, but kept part of it.

Eugene

[the truth]

Also Newgene ........Jesus had to have this come about to fullfill Scriptures.

Jer 17:13  O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

All who forsake the Torah...will be written in the earth!

Either your name is written in the book of life or the earth!

[Kat]

Hi eggi,

What do you suppose Paul meant when he said that he was as "touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless"?

Did he actually mean that he kept the Law without fault? Obviously not.
I've been told today that this refers to the Oral Law that the Pharisees had created, and not to the Torah. So when Paul says that a righteousness has been made known APART from the law the law in question is in fact the ORAL law, and not the Torah.

1Th 5:23  Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 1:19  For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
v. 20  and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.
v. 21  And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
v. 22  He has now reconciled in His body of flesh by His death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before Him,
v. 23  if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

It is only through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that only His blood will wash us clean of our sins. Though He will help us to overcome in this life so that sin will not have dominion over us (Rom 6:14), as long as we are in the flesh we will still be weak to the flesh. It is only through the Spirit indwelling (that only came because of Christ's sacrifice) that the elect are "blameless."

1Th 3:11  Now may our God and Father Himself, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way to you.
v. 12  And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you,
v. 13  so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[eggi]

Hi Kat,

Thank you for your answer. Paul indeed went on to SPIRITUAL perfection, not laying again the foundation of the FLESHLY rituals.

Phil 3:4-6 refers back to when Paul was a Pharisee.

I thought of an explanation which I think makes sense as to what he meant. Paul was a zealous follower of the RITUAL Law. Therefore he could say that he could boast because he was following the physical rituals to PERFECTION:

Phil 3:4-6:

Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Circumcision was part of the fleshly rituals of the Law, being of the tribe of Benjamin ensured that he was Abraham's seed, after the flesh. What Jesus said SHOCKED the Jews: I KNOW YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED, but I tell you that you are children of your father, THE DEVIL. (Paraphrased)

So the flesh profits nothing. The Law is SPIRITUAL.

Dave sent me an article on Wikipedia showing that the Pharisees kept the Torah AND the oral Law. I don't believe the idea that they kept only the oral law and didn't care about the Torah. What I believed they were criticized for was that they LEFT the WEIGHTIER MATTERS of the Law undone. They cared about the external rituals, for the wrong reasons.

How does give extra proof that Paul speaks of the ritual law in the passage mentioned above? Can anyone else bring out other aspects that show us that the Law is SPIRITUAL ?

God bless you,
Eirik

[onelovedread]

Kat
Those scriptures you shared are indeed GOOD NEWS! What a marvellous God!

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Eggi.  I'm not crazy about 'arguing' with people who aren't here, but here's two passages that confrim the Law is Spiritual, though I doubt they will do any good for your tormentor.  At least the first one should...the second one I'll just post mainly as a prayer for you.

Rom 2:28 For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision;"
Rom 2:29 but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God."

Gal 5:1 For freedom Christ frees us! Stand firm, then, and be not again enthralled with the yoke of slavery."
Gal 5:2 Lo! I, Paul, am saying to you that if you should be circumcising, Christ will benefit you nothing."
Gal 5:3 Now I am attesting again to every man who is circumcising, that he is a debtor to do the whole law."
Gal 5:4 Exempted from Christ were you who are being justified in law. You fall out of grace.
Gal 5:5 For we, in spirit, are awaiting the expectation of righteousness by faith."
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision is availing anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith, operating through love."
Gal 5:7 You raced ideally! Who hinders you not to be persuaded by the truth?
Gal 5:8 This persuasion is not of Him Who is calling you.
Gal 5:9 A little leaven is leavening the whole kneading.
Gal 5:10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that in nothing you will be disposed otherwise. Now he who is disturbing you shall be bearing his judgment, whosoever he may be."