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[rsks]

"But it is not a 1000 years, that’s a symbol for something.  I think I know what that something is now.  I know when the 1000 years ends.  But that is another subject for another time."

This is what Ray said at the 2007 Conference.  Can anybody help me find his explanation for what
'symbol' he was referring to with regard to the 1,000 years ?

Thank you all in advance,  Kelli 

[the truth]

Hello rsks....So this is as close as I can give you to what I think the answer would be in Rays teaching. In other words I think its symbolic of the feast.And I repeat this is my guess???Would be glad to talk about on pm.....Go to were Ray teaches on the feast.

Can anybody help me find his explanation for what
'symbol' he was referring to with regard to the 1,000 years

 http://bible-truths.com/lake4.html

[rsks]

Thank you for the link. 

Maybe this is where Ray was going with his statement ? 

"First comes the wave sheaf, the very first of the firstfruits, on Passover, during the feast of unleavened bread. This represents CHRIST, the very first (wave sheaf) OF the firstfruit, our Passover sacrificed for us.

Second was the Feast of Weeks when the firstfruit of the land was harvested. This represents US, the FIRSTFRUIT to enter God’s Kingdom. James says WE are the firstfruit of God (James 1:18).

Third came the great Fall harvest, the Feast of Tabernacles, a much much larger gathering, where ALL THE FALL HARVEST was gathered in! What does this Feast picture? This was the time of true REJOICING FOR EVERYONE. Absolutely EVERYONE. No one was left out of this great and final festival of the year"

That would make sense to me...?  !!  What do you think?

[Gina]

Hi, Kelli:  Are you saying the 1000 years ends here:

Third came the great Fall harvest, the Feast of Tabernacles, a much much larger gathering, where ALL THE FALL HARVEST was gathered in! What does this Feast picture? This was the time of true REJOICING FOR EVERYONE. Absolutely EVERYONE. No one was left out of this great and final festival of the year"


Rev. 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled [ended ?] : and after that he must be loosed a little while.

Are you saying we'll know when the 1000 years has ended because all rejoicing will cease, seeing how the end of the 1000 years ushers in the loosing of Satan?  That would certainly stop the followers of Christ from rejoicing; can't speak for anyone else, however.

[mharrell08]

Rev. 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,  And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled [ended ?] : and after that he must be loosed a little while.

Are you saying we'll know when the 1000 years has ended because all rejoicing will cease, seeing how the end of the 1000 years ushers in the loosing of Satan?  That would certainly stop the followers of Christ from rejoicing; can't speak for anyone else, however.

I know this is what this scripture implies on the surface, but this theory never made sense to me. Satan is said to be loosened after the 1000 years but he is never said to actually do anything. The later scriptures in this chapter speak of Satan being saved (fire and brimstone v10).

The 1000 years is a symbolic period of time that represents mankind being spiritually saved and converted (Converting every single soul that has ever lived will in all likely hood take much longer than 1000 years). That's why verse 5 (the dead living not again until after the 1000 years) never made sense either. It can be likened to the great feast, seeing that was one of the few customs in ancient Israel to include everyone, Jew & Gentile.

But as far as what Ray said, no he never wrote about what he believed the 1000 years symbolized.


Marques

[Gina]

Satan is said to be loosened after the 1000 years but he is never said to actually do anything.

 

Rev. 20:7-8 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

You mean "deceiving the nations to gather them together for the war" isn't doing anything? 

[mharrell08]

Satan is said to be loosened after the 1000 years but he is never said to actually do anything.

 

Rev. 20:7-8 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.

You mean "deceiving the nations to gather them together for the war" isn't doing anything? 

You're reading what they are setting out to do, that doesn't mean it gets accomplished. Follow along to the next few verses:

Rev 20:9-10  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

This is why I stated the theory of Satan doing more harm after Christ returns makes no sense. The scriptures state that Jesus will reign until all is subject to Him, and then He will subject Himself to the Father [1 Cor 15:28]. When we attempt to let scriptures from Revelation interpret themselves, it always leads to confusion. We have to reconcile these passages from other scriptures, especially those from the OT.

I can't speak for Ray, but I think this is what he may have been implying when he made these comments...but again, I can't say for sure:

-------------- From 'How We Got the Bible' Mobile Conference 2007

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
v. 3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit (abyss), and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

That verse gives me a problem, it would take a long time to explain why. Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, don’t have a clue. Not only do they not have the answers, they don’t even know what the problems are.

I used to think the same thing, until I noticed that what Satan sets out to do never actually gets accomplished. But that is my thought, not Ray's.



Marques

[Kat]

Rev 20:1  Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain.
v. 2  And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
v. 3  and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended...

We know from those verses that Satan will be bound and not be able to do his work of deception when Christ reigns on earth for the "1000 years" period. That '1000' yrs seems to be a symbol for a period of time... maybe the first age of judgement? Why I say 'first age' is because the Scripture speak of those not saved in that 1000 yr reign of Christ.

Mat 12:32  Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

We can see that there are at least 2 phases to the judgment on earth, because there are those that "will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." But we would not really think of those as an large number, that commented that sin. But in verse 8 it says that it certainly is, the "number is as the sand of the sea." 

Rev 20:7-8  Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

It has occurred to me that there may be more than those spoken of in Matt. 12:32 that would greatly add to their number. Think of all those babies and young children resurrected back to life when Christ will be ruling, they will be raised under His rule... what judgment will they face? Of course they will make mistakes and be corrected throughout their lives. But do they need to be deceived and rebel, before they can really be judged with fire? Will that be Satan's job when he is "...after these things he must be released for a little while" (Rev. 20:3)? Maybe these 2 groups will make up those that make this huge number that are "as the sand of the sea," and are the "nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog." Most of those would be the children raised up in the kingdom and not know of the "the wiles of the devil" (Eph 6:11). He could deceive them and cause them to rebel. So I can see this as necessary and God would be ready for them with fire and judgment.

Rev 20:9  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
v. 10  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night unto the ages of ages.

So would that be another age - the 2nd age of judgment for those who rebel with those not forgiven in the first age of judgment? And that verse also states "ages of the ages," could that imply that there are yet ages of judgment after those? Maybe there are more ages for Satan and his demons?

As you can see there are quite a few question marks as this is certainly not something I have nailed down, but just wanted to call attention to some things for consideration.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[the truth]

Hello Marques,Gina ,rsks

AS has already been stated.We have to confirm with the other Scriptures to know we have truth.And we know he has a order.

1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


v-23-Christ.....being the firstfruit to the Father.Then Christ offering HIS firstfruit to the Father...Matt-27-52-53.AKA...the Barley...Afterward they who are Christ at his coming...Elect.........{wheat}..see James 1-18.Jesus was mortal when he raised the dead on earth.But his resurrection started the new creation with Spirit.So are we to think that he would start His knew creation with something that would die again?NO, i don't think there is a walt disney world heaven with lots of people running around up there.But remember the ORDER...So there could not be.

v-24-28-To make  a quick thought here is what..... I .....see God plan is.IN short.

The feast is a 8 day celebration...7 days..celebration and rejoicing.8th day sabbath-rest which represents New beginnings which equals New heaven ..new earth.

Christ calls his elect  some were in the feast of trumpets and the day of atonement which leads up to the feast of tabernacle.which IS the 1000 years. For the marriage supper of the lamb.The reign begins...see zech-14..satan is bound for a season.The elect are teaching The gentiles who survived the tribulation and their families during the feast of tabernacle.=1000.Then satan has to be released to fulfill the Scriptures....Lk-24-44.This is at the end of the feast of tabernacle/1000 when they in camp the city.Thus the great white throne.They who are raised in judgement....Have to be perfected through the things they have suffered.Just like Jesus NOBODY gets out of that.So as has been stated "The rest did not live until after  the 1000 years ."I know its" spurious? "...anyway...Going back to God order .

Because he has a order..Those who are resurrected at the white throne judgement have a order as well..that's way it says It Will be more Tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for you.And is part of the reason why the Jew will go in last.
Anyway there is a thousand more truths to this that I have shared.I realize for some they will say I wish he would explain it a little better.And I can just not here!This is just my thoughts.God Bless!

[Gina]

God hasn't really put this on my heart to study in depth at this time, so I'm going to gracefully step out of this discussion.  I think you all make good points though; you, especially, Marques.  Thanks. 

[Dave in Tenn]

Goes back to the purpose of Satan in the first place for me. 

I don't think the '1000 years' is a symbol for another period of time, though these things take time.  It even takes time here before resurrection.  Without 'sight'--which is our blessed but difficult state--it may even take longer now.

Whenever Satan is loosed, God is working for good.  First to those who believe, and later for those who don't when they too believe. 

Jas 1:2-5 All joy deem it, my brethren, whenever you should be falling into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith is producing endurance.  Now let endurance have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and unimpaired, lacking in nothing.  Now if anyone of you is lacking wisdom, let him be requesting it from God, Who is giving to all generously and is not reproaching, and it shall be given to him.

I think that's a description of both the process and the end-result--not ignorant bliss, but perfection and completeness.  I reckon if Satan is able to decieve the nations, the nations ain't done yet.  And if he is not, then they are.   

When there is no longer need for an adversary, there will be no more adversary.  He changes all His enemies into family, eventually.  Aren't we living that in small, but discernable, ways now?  At the very tiniest least, haven't we overcome the worst of his lies?  He's still being loosed for a "little while" now too, and it is impossible to decieve the Very Elect of God.

Anyways, I think that's what this 1000 years symbolizes.  If Ray had not answered it like this, at least he filled us in on what Satan is for in the Hands of Almighty God and helped train us to read The Revelation not simply as future prophecy, but spiritual reality in every life and generation, each in his own turn.

[the truth]

Well put Dave..Enjoyed it...as always.

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Kellie. 

Ray said,

...how long is 1000 years?

 Till He puts down all His enemies, it says so.

1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign, TILL He has put all enemies under His feet.

Transcripts of Ray's Audio's and More Teachings / Re: Mobile Conference 2009

[Gina]

Thanks Deb.

[rsks]

You all are so lovely!  Thank you for the insights you have all lent to me.  I am going to put "here a little, there a little" to practice with all your comments and really soak it all in!  Just the fact that the festivals were brought to my attention, is so huge.  I had kind of forgotten about all the significance of them.

Each of you have such great insights.

Love you all, Grace and Peace, Kelli

P.S. Was asked by a friend about Satan and was trying to gather all the Scriptures on him being created by God and liar from the beginning, etc. .... and had this other "proof" thought.... the Scripture says that Satan transforms INTO an Angel of light (to deceive the nations) -- NOT that he had transformed FROM an Angel of light.  See what I mean INTO (not FROM - as in already was an angel).  I had that thought while studying about 2 hours ago.  I'm sure Ray has already pointed that out, but I had not ever seen or heard him say it so I thought I might add my little insight for you all beloved people!

[Gina]

God bless you too Kelli.  I like to read your posts.

[bpenelli]

New Living Translation (NLT)

7 When the thousand years come to an end, Satan will be let out of his prison. 8 He will go out to deceive the nations—called Gog and Magog—in every corner of the earth. He will gather them together for battle—a mighty army, as numberless as sand along the seashore

Ezekiel 38
A Message for Gog

38 This is another message that came to me from the Lord: 2 “Son of man, turn and face Gog of the land of Magog, the prince who rules over the nations of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him. 3 Give him this message from the Sovereign Lord: Gog, I am your enemy! 4 I will turn you around and put hooks in your jaws to lead you out with your whole army—your horses and charioteers in full armor and a great horde armed with shields and swords. 5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya will join you, too, with all their weapons. 6 Gomer and all its armies will also join you, along with the armies of Beth-togarmah from the distant north, and many others.

7 “Get ready; be prepared! Keep all the armies around you mobilized, and take command of them. 8 A long time from now you will be called into action. In the distant future you will swoop down on the land of Israel, which will be enjoying peace after recovering from war and after its people have returned from many lands to the mountains of Israel. 9 You and all your allies—a vast and awesome army—will roll down on them like a storm and cover the land like a cloud.

10 “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: At that time evil thoughts will come to your mind, and you will devise a wicked scheme. 11 You will say, ‘Israel is an unprotected land filled with unwalled villages! I will march against her and destroy these people who live in such confidence! 12 I will go to those formerly desolate cities that are now filled with people who have returned from exile in many nations. I will capture vast amounts of plunder, for the people are rich with livestock and other possessions now. They think the whole world revolves around them!’ 13 But Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish will ask, ‘Do you really think the armies you have gathered can rob them of silver and gold? Do you think you can drive away their livestock and seize their goods and carry off plunder?’

14 “Therefore, son of man, prophesy against Gog. Give him this message from the Sovereign Lord: When my people are living in peace in their land, then you will rouse yourself. 15 You will come from your homeland in the distant north with your vast cavalry and your mighty army, 16 and you will attack my people Israel, covering their land like a cloud. At that time in the distant future, I will bring you against my land as everyone watches, and my holiness will be displayed by what happens to you, Gog. Then all the nations will know that I am the Lord.

17 “This is what the Sovereign Lord asks: Are you the one I was talking about long ago, when I announced through Israel’s prophets that in the future I would bring you against my people? 18 But this is what the Sovereign Lord says: When Gog invades the land of Israel, my fury will boil over! 19 In my jealousy and blazing anger, I promise a mighty shaking in the land of Israel on that day. 20 All living things—the fish in the sea, the birds of the sky, the animals of the field, the small animals that scurry along the ground, and all the people on earth—will quake in terror at my presence. Mountains will be thrown down; cliffs will crumble; walls will fall to the earth. 21 I will summon the sword against you on all the hills of Israel, says the Sovereign Lord. Your men will turn their swords against each other. 22 I will punish you and your armies with disease and bloodshed; I will send torrential rain, hailstones, fire, and burning sulfur! 23 In this way, I will show my greatness and holiness, and I will make myself known to all the nations of the world. Then they will know that I am the Lord.

Also see chapter 39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+39&version=NLT

[Dennis Vogel]

FYI: Ray said...

Now for the last few years I’ve been looking at all these things, about the return of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom and all these things. I haven’t written to much about that yet. You know why? Because I don’t understand it! But now I’m getting there and here is a Scripture in Revelation.

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.

v. 3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit (abyss), and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

That verse gives me a problem, it would take a long time to explain why. Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, don’t have a clue. Not only do they not have the answers, they don’t even know what the problems are.
 
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  …And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here. I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time. There is a problem, that won’t work and I can’t make it work. It doesn’t fit, there is no way to make this thing fit. Then some months ago, now I know why it, “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” won’t fit. It’s not Scripture! Tischendorf has it right there.

Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...

It’s not in the Sinaiticus. So I said, okay now we’re moving again. We’re a little closer to the Truth.

[eggi]

Thank you Dennis for that information,

I had a vague memory of having read this.

God bless you,
Eirik

[Dennis Vogel]

Thank you Dennis for that information,

I had a vague memory of having read this.

God bless you,
Eirik

Actually I asked Marques to look it up for me.