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Author Topic: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed  (Read 18853 times)

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Ian 155

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are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« on: August 01, 2012, 12:56:07 PM »

Members,

Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected

ian
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John from Kentucky

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2012, 03:58:54 PM »

Members,

Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected

ian

I don't know if I fully understand your question.

All mankind has sinned because God created us to automatically sin.  He made us the way we are.  There is a 100% success rate in humanity sinning.  God always has His way.  That is why there is not even one righteous human (except Jesus).

The only way that we ever do a good thing is when the Spirit of God gives us the will and the action to do a good thing.

Both Good and Evil come from God.  We are His workmanship.  As Jeremiah and Paul noted, we are clay being formed in the Hands of the Potter.
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gmik

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2012, 06:36:08 PM »

i thought the fall was planned all along and not just allowed...

i also think we can use all scripture to help us in our everyday life so i guess it can be used as sterotype for our sins and lessons....
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Ian 155

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2012, 06:14:44 AM »

thanks ,

I'm taking notes - God Is admonishing the then woman [not yet named], what is this you have done?  is God kinda surprised as well ?

Gen 3:9  But the LORD God called to the man and said to him, "Where are you?" 1 question
Gen 3:11  He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat? 2 questions,God knew the answers to ,
Gen 3:13  Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." 4th question

My Question again, Is This a stereo type of our daily lives as we know them - explaining away our daily falling in an attitude of repentance - Man was created in Gods image, you say we were created to sin ... I was hoping there were past/any, discussions on the subject - why this Fall was allowed/planned

Ian
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longhorn

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2012, 09:32:09 AM »

This e-mail to Ray may help answer some of your questions.  http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#why









*fixed link* 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 01:55:43 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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longhorn

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2012, 09:34:37 AM »

I hate computers and they hate me.  Read Ray's " Why are we Here" e-mail.  Mabey someone with actual skills can post that link.

Longhorn
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Gina

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2012, 10:01:25 AM »

I think I see what you're saying, Ian.  I'm not sure I can mirror back to you clearly what I see, but I will try, so bear with me, because this is an interesting topic and one that hits close to my heart.

It sounds like you're asking:  would this be the approach that God uses with us each time we stumble and fall every day of our lives? 

My understanding is, if you are the elect of God, it is not possible to be deceived by Satan ever again.  Yes, we will still sin; but I don't believe that God drives the elect from the "Tree of Life," but rather He gives us the ability to repent through his kindness -- that is what leads to repentance after all.  And He doesn't  stop there--no!  He goes on to CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS so we can obey Him; so that we go on to actually DO what's RIGHT.   (In my case as it was yesterday - praying for those who persecute us and treat us badly.)

 If you believe [obey] God you will not be treated like someone who doesn't believe God.  See, Eve didn't believe God; she believed the lie because she was deceived

You will be TEMPTED TO BELIEVE THE LIE, but it will not be possible for you to believe because God won't let you believe it. 

If you are the elect, you won't believe the lie and you won't be driven from the Tree of Life; and God will not be asking you "where are you, Ian?"  because you know where you are and how you got there--right?  No need to ask or try and figure it out, right?  (And yes, I know that God isn't asking "where are you" as if He doesn't know himself; of course He does; but when we're steeped in sin and disobedient, we don't know--so He asks us "where are you?"  As if to say, You're not where you ought to be.")


Hebrews 4

1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.

2  For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.

3  For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

5 And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

. . .

9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,  [God's people are not driven away from the Tree of Life by God like Adam and Eve were, and there are no thorns and thistles on that Tree. :)]

10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his [own] works as God did from his.

11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest [sounds a little oxymoronic - "strive to enter rest"--it's like, huh? what?], so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Jesus the Great High Priest

14 Since then we [the elect, not those who don't really believe God] have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [1 Tim 4:10 For this we labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God, Who is the savior of ALL men, especially those that believe [believe God].]

15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us then with confidence [boldly] draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. 




We die to self daily. Daily we are saved by grace through faith.  Each day we are judged [ if you judge YOURSELF you will not be condemned (like Adam and Eve were) with the world ]  Are we coming out of the world?  Or are we going along with the lies?  I am not going along with the lies but when I am tempted and if I DO sin, I know that I have an advocate who is familiar with the temptation to sin, yet without sinning, who understands my weaknesses and to whom I can draw near to for well-timed help just when I need it, so let us draw boldly to the throne of grace (this couldn't be more fitting a subject for the day I had today!  I get so scared sometimes, so this is really helpful for me to talk about, Ian--what a blessing to me this subject is.)  We believe God , who is TEACHING us with kindness that leads to repentance (in attitude and action) so we can overcome our sin.  "Sin shall no longer have dominion over you." 

And if we are the elect, then we need to be given access to the "Tree of Life."  Right?  I mean, Adam and Eve were driven from the Tree of Life so that they couldn't live, right?  But if Christ lives in us then though we are dead, we live; or rather Christ lives in us.

Tell me if that makes any sense, Ian, or anyone! 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 10:38:24 AM by Gina »
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mharrell08

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2012, 10:42:12 AM »

Just because God asked questions to Adam & Eve doesn't mean anything was a surprise to Him. Often times, parents and teachers ask questions to students, that they already know the answer to, as a teaching tool. Our entire lives are teaching tools for us to become sons & daughters of God.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2012, 10:53:28 AM »

http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#will

Mighta been this one too. 

   
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Ian 155

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2012, 11:18:50 AM »

This e-mail to Ray may help answer some of your qhttp://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#whyuestions.

See the problem... the q for "question" is in the wrong place
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2012, 11:29:59 AM »

Members,

Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected

ian

I don't know, Ian.  The rain falls on the just and the unjust, and it seems like the opposite is often true...the more I overcome deceit the harder life is.  It's been like that for me, anyway...but I'm a little wierd.  Life and circumstances weren't 'Good' before I started repenting and caring about God and godliness, but at least I didn't have that.  Now I actually have things to do, the Beast to dethrone, sins to repent of, character to build, houses are crumbling, stuff going on.  Before I was just fat, dumb and...was going to say 'happy', but that's stretching it quite a bit.  "Fat" is too, come to think of it.   :) 
 
I still grumble about the outside (I'm not much better off than I was four years ago), but its been a worth-while exchange on the inside.  I reckon the outside has had something to do with that, too.

Is "Eve" stereotypical of any of that?  I think so.  Certainly we ate the same fruit.   

     
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Deborah-Leigh

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2012, 12:11:57 PM »



Members,

Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected

ian

Hi ian

It is truly mind boggling how words can cover a multitude of assumptions! lol ~  ;D

Take that word "allow" for example.

Here then are all the Biblical examples of what God “allows”:

“But as we were allowed [Gk:   ‘approved’] of God to be put in trust with the gospel…”  (I Thes. 2:4).

That’s it! That is the totality of everything in the Bible that God “allows.”
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html



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the truth

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2012, 05:13:28 PM »

Hello,Ian










God's Will

« on: December 09, 2006, 03:51:52 PM »



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've heard allot of  people  ask the question what is Gods will for they're lives?
This is my question as well, what is Gods Will?
Is it our own will?
If we live a holy life wont we be in the Will of God what ever we do?
Could you please give me some in site on this question, I've read all of your writings and its caused me to search for answers more than ever.
I've found that in the past ,I've more less believed the teachings of others and never read the bible for myself. Its great to read and see that the bible is nothing like I've  been taught. I'm tired of living according to  teachers ,preachers . I want to live according to what God wants, and what the Bible actually teaches.Your site has been very informative.Thanks T
     

Dear Teresa:

If you will read or reread my four-part series on "The Myth of Free Will Exposed," you will know a great deal about the will of God. I am now going to teach you something very very profound, so listen carefully:

EVERYTHING that happened in your life, in the past, WAS God's purpose for your life at that time.

EVERYTHING that will happen in your life, in the future, WILL BE God's purpose for you at that time.

Then why do anything? Why try? Why care? Why be good? Why study?  Why pray? For WHAT?

Here is where viritually all Christians and all theologians and all ministers turn their minds off.

What you did in the past was influenced and caused by your environment of the past.

What you do in the future will be influenced and caused by your environment of the future.

What you are hearing and learning from bibletruths.com is one of those environmental

happenings that will have an effect on your future. You may not see how, but God does.

If God is choosing you as one of the called/chosen/elect/few, then you WILL respond

to the information and circumstances that God Himself will be directing in your life.

If you desire to stop sinning and start obeying God, then that being CAUSED in your

heart and mind, and you have no idea were and when it really began. God knows.

This is a subject for a 300 page book, not a short email. Hope you understand. Keep reading.

God be with you,

Ray
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Ian 155

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2012, 05:51:21 PM »

Eph 4:20  But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21  If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22  That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23  And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24  And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25  Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26  Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27  Neither give place to the devil. Eph 4:28  Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29  Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30  And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31  Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32  And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


 Heb 13:4  Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Heb 13:5  Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Heb 13:6  So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
Heb 13:7  Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:8  Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


Folks .. I am getting there,we are given certain instructions just like Adam and Eve were given instruction - Sometimes the things I want to do I don't... No explanation ,

By most replys,Gods Will, it seems is for us to do/listen to, these instructions listed above or does God allow for incompetence without judgement 

I underlined Allow especially for you Arc :)) strong verse that ...thanks
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Ian 155

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2012, 05:56:11 PM »

I think I see what you're saying, Ian.  I'm not sure I can mirror back to you clearly what I see, but I will try, so bear with me, because this is an interesting topic and one that hits close to my heart.

It sounds like you're asking:  would this be the approach that God uses with us each time we stumble and fall every day of our lives? 

My understanding is, if you are the elect of God, it is not possible to be deceived by Satan ever again.  Yes, we will still sin; but I don't believe that God drives the elect from the "Tree of Life," but rather He gives us the ability to repent through his kindness -- that is what leads to repentance after all.  And He doesn't  stop there--no!  He goes on to CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS so we can obey Him; so that we go on to actually DO what's RIGHT.   (In my case as it was yesterday - praying for those who persecute us and treat us badly.)

 If you believe [obey] God you will not be treated like someone who doesn't believe God.  See, Eve didn't believe God; she believed the lie because she was deceived

You will be TEMPTED TO BELIEVE THE LIE, but it will not be possible for you to believe because God won't let you believe it. 

If you are the elect, you won't believe the lie and you won't be driven from the Tree of Life; and God will not be asking you "where are you, Ian?"  because you know where you are and how you got there--right?  No need to ask or try and figure it out, right?  (And yes, I know that God isn't asking "where are you" as if He doesn't know himself; of course He does; but when we're steeped in sin and disobedient, we don't know--so He asks us "where are you?"  As if to say, You're not where you ought to be.")


Hebrews 4

1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.

2  For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.

3  For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”

5 And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

. . .

9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,  [God's people are not driven away from the Tree of Life by God like Adam and Eve were, and there are no thorns and thistles on that Tree. :)]

10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his [own] works as God did from his.

11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest [sounds a little oxymoronic - "strive to enter rest"--it's like, huh? what?], so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.

12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Jesus the Great High Priest

14 Since then we [the elect, not those who don't really believe God] have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [1 Tim 4:10 For this we labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God, Who is the savior of ALL men, especially those that believe [believe God].]

15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

16 Let us then with confidence [boldly] draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. 




We die to self daily. Daily we are saved by grace through faith.  Each day we are judged [ if you judge YOURSELF you will not be condemned (like Adam and Eve were) with the world ]  Are we coming out of the world?  Or are we going along with the lies?  I am not going along with the lies but when I am tempted and if I DO sin, I know that I have an advocate who is familiar with the temptation to sin, yet without sinning, who understands my weaknesses and to whom I can draw near to for well-timed help just when I need it, so let us draw boldly to the throne of grace (this couldn't be more fitting a subject for the day I had today!  I get so scared sometimes, so this is really helpful for me to talk about, Ian--what a blessing to me this subject is.)  We believe God , who is TEACHING us with kindness that leads to repentance (in attitude and action) so we can overcome our sin.  "Sin shall no longer have dominion over you." 

And if we are the elect, then we need to be given access to the "Tree of Life."  Right?  I mean, Adam and Eve were driven from the Tree of Life so that they couldn't live, right?  But if Christ lives in us then though we are dead, we live; or rather Christ lives in us.

Tell me if that makes any sense, Ian, or anyone!

perfect sence Gina, Its application ...

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Ian 155

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2012, 06:11:31 PM »

Members,

Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected

ian

I don't know, Ian.  The rain falls on the just and the unjust, and it seems like the opposite is often true...the more I overcome deceit the harder life is.  It's been like that for me, anyway...but I'm a little wierd.  Life and circumstances weren't 'Good' before I started repenting and caring about God and godliness, but at least I didn't have that.  Now I actually have things to do, the Beast to dethrone, sins to repent of, character to build, houses are crumbling, stuff going on.  Before I was just fat, dumb and...was going to say 'happy', but that's stretching it quite a bit.  "Fat" is too, come to think of it.   :) 
 
I still grumble about the outside (I'm not much better off than I was four years ago), but its been a worth-while exchange on the inside.  I reckon the outside has had something to do with that, too.

Is "Eve" stereotypical of any of that?  I think so.  Certainly we ate the same fruit.   

   

Sounds a lot like myself here Dave - frustrated that from my perspective Im never ever gonna be perfect or at least there seems so much work to do due to the humoungous pile of trash thats gotta be dealt with ...everyone else seems to be hunky dory goood students and here am I just fallin and crawlin.
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2012, 07:49:51 PM »


Hi Ian,

We are all born in the carnal flesh subject to sin and since that first man sinned all have followed right along disobeying/sinning, which leads to death.

Rom 5:18  So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation...
v. 19  for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners...

Of course that is not the end of the matter, but the beginning. We all live and do right/good and wrong/evil, this is partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil just as Adam and Eve did. By this we are forming a backdrop, a knowledge of both good and evil from life experiences. God always tells us what is right and good, even gave us the law so we would have it in writing and know exactly what is wrong. But we are made carnal and cannot obey, just as Paul said.

Rom 7:18  for I have known that there doth not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh, good: for to will is present with me, and to work that which is right I do not find,

God is giving us this "experience of evil" to teach us a very valuable lesson... that as we are, carnal, we are hopeless slaves to sin.

Ecc 1:13  And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all which is done under the heavens. It is a sad task God has given to the sons of men to be humbled by it.

Well there is a process being worked out and we are only at the beginning, for most, the many, they will die in the lost condition. But this life lived as a sinner is not the end, far from it.  For a few, we are given repentance in this life and by Jesus Christ indwelling sin no longer reigns over us, as Paul said...

Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
v. 25  Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Rom 5:19  For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

So as you ask, "does God allow for incompetence without judgement"? No not allow, but caused, because God is sovereign and the ultimate cause of all things. And judgement is on the elect now, and for the rest of the world they will come up in the resurrection to judgement.

Here is an email for more on this.
 
http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm -------------------

"Wherefore God also has highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name. That at the name of JESUS every knee should bow [that's worship], of things [them] in heaven, and them in earth, and them under the earth; And that every tongue should CONFESS that Jesus Christ IS LORD [that's REPENTANCE, and it can ONLY be done by the in-dwelling of God's Holy Spirit, '...no man CAN say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit' I Cor. 12:3], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2;9-11).
v

Phil. 2:9-11, where EVERY KNEE AND EVERY TONGUE bows and confesses that Jesus is LORD AND MASTER OF THEIR LIVES! Where do you see in these verses FAILURE to believe and accept Jesus?
v

"WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, through FAITH." GRACE IS FREE. GRACE SAVES US. Nothing but the GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST SAVES US--NOTHING ELSE! And we didn't "come to Christ," the Father DRAGGED US" (John 6:44), and we have not "chosen Christ," but rather Christ has "chosen us" (John 15:16).
v

Once God GRACES His true elect, He then TEACHES, TRAINS, DISCIPLINES, CORRECTS, PUNISHES, CHASTISES us to live GODLY LIVES IN AN UNGODLY WORLD (Titus 2:11).

Grace is a VERB that does and accomplishes something in the true believer. It conquers the WORLD and its LUSTS inside of the true believer. Did Saul/Paul "ASK TO BE SAVED" on the road to Damascus? Well, DID HE?
-------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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Joel

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2012, 11:17:56 PM »

God is truly loving, even in his judgements. He without a doubt knew the answers to all the questions, but he also gets up close and personal with individuals.
As he did with Abraham, and Lot before he brought judgement on the cities of the plain. It not only lets us see God's view point, but his people as well when he asked questions.
How much was known about death and dieing before the fall?
God is the master potter, forming us in the womb and continues making us to his liking, some pleasing and some not so pleasing for the rest of our lives.
How many despise the Word of God? Are there things in his Word that I wish were not in the Bible? I know I use to avoid some things, that aren't a problem now.
If we do good, and eschew evil ( shun ) we won't be the workers of iniquity that he will say to; "I never knew you."

Joel
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Gina

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2012, 12:15:12 AM »


Sounds a lot like myself here Dave - frustrated that from my perspective Im never ever gonna be perfect or at least there seems so much work to do due to the humoungous pile of trash thats gotta be dealt with ...everyone else seems to be hunky dory goood students and here am I just fallin and crawlin.

Sounds a lot like me too, Ian!  Take heart -- look who God calls! :)

26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.

27 But God chose what is foolish [THAT'S ME!] in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak [ME AGAIN!] in the world to shame the strong;

28 God chose what is low and despised in the world [ME AGAIN!], even things that are not [the "nobody's" the "nothings" -- ME HERE TOO!], to bring to nothing things that are,

29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,

31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

________________________________

You're in my prayers, Ian. :)
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Deborah-Leigh

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Re: are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2012, 04:14:11 AM »


 ;D ROFL...Hey Ian, I love that you don't let up!

Eph 4:27  Neither give place to the devil.

By most replys,Gods Will, it seems is for us to do/listen to, these instructions listed above or does God allow for incompetence without judgement 

I underlined Allow especially for you Arc :)) strong verse that ...thanks

For starters, can you or I or anyone NOT give place to the devil, of their own free will? NO! LOL ~ ;D

You want to stop sinning and the more you try and the more you clean out your house, the more devils move in! LOL....It is a lesson in humility! lol.

GOD CAUSES EVIL IN THE CITY

Let’s take a close look at that last Scripture in our list:

“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)

There’s the question; what’s the answer? The answer from all Christendom is “Yes.” “Yes” there shall be all kinds of evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it. In fact, according to their teaching, the Lord does no evil in any city, ever. World famous teacher/preacher/theologian/author, Billy Graham said before a packed house in the National Cathedral, that GOD DOES    NOT CREATE EVIL.  But what saith the Scriptures (Amos 3:4-6):

“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

Answer: NO!

“Will a lion roar in the forest, when he has not prey?"

Answer: NO!

“Will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing?"

Answer: NO!

“Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin [baited trap] is for him?"

Answer: NO!

“Shall one take up a snare [shall a snare spring up] from the earth, and have taken [caught] nothing at all?"

Answer: NO!

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?"

Answer: NO!

“Shall there be EVIL in a city and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?"

Answer: NO!

The Answer is “NO”!

I am now speaking to the mature only. This information is too heavy, too hard, too overwhelming for the carnal-minded person.   Have you ever wondered just where it is that the proverbial “rubber meets the road?” Well, right here is where the rubber meets the road. If you don’t accept; if you cannot accept, if you will not accept the truth of all these double-witness Scriptures presented above, then you will never understand God’s plan of salvation for the human race.

Seven times in Amos 3 God asks us a question, and SEVEN TIMES THE ANSWER IS “NO”! NO, there shall not be EVIL in a city [any city—all cities] unless THE LORD HAS DONE IT! The truth of this Scripture (along with hundreds and hundreds like it) is so powerful, so absolutely earth-shattering, that the mere fact of me quoting it and suggesting that it is a true statement, will evoke hate mail from far and wide. 

http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
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