> General Discussions
are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on August 02, 2012, 08:29:59 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on August 01, 2012, 09:56:07 AM ---Members,
Was the allowed and successful temptation of Adam and Eve in the Garden a stereotype of what we go thru every day - the more we succumb to deceit the more pain the more harder this life is [thorns and thistles]- that is until we are perfected
ian
--- End quote ---
I don't know, Ian. The rain falls on the just and the unjust, and it seems like the opposite is often true...the more I overcome deceit the harder life is. It's been like that for me, anyway...but I'm a little wierd. Life and circumstances weren't 'Good' before I started repenting and caring about God and godliness, but at least I didn't have that. Now I actually have things to do, the Beast to dethrone, sins to repent of, character to build, houses are crumbling, stuff going on. Before I was just fat, dumb and...was going to say 'happy', but that's stretching it quite a bit. "Fat" is too, come to think of it. :)
I still grumble about the outside (I'm not much better off than I was four years ago), but its been a worth-while exchange on the inside. I reckon the outside has had something to do with that, too.
Is "Eve" stereotypical of any of that? I think so. Certainly we ate the same fruit.
--- End quote ---
Sounds a lot like myself here Dave - frustrated that from my perspective Im never ever gonna be perfect or at least there seems so much work to do due to the humoungous pile of trash thats gotta be dealt with ...everyone else seems to be hunky dory goood students and here am I just fallin and crawlin.
Kat:
Hi Ian,
We are all born in the carnal flesh subject to sin and since that first man sinned all have followed right along disobeying/sinning, which leads to death.
Rom 5:18 So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation...
v. 19 for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners...
Of course that is not the end of the matter, but the beginning. We all live and do right/good and wrong/evil, this is partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil just as Adam and Eve did. By this we are forming a backdrop, a knowledge of both good and evil from life experiences. God always tells us what is right and good, even gave us the law so we would have it in writing and know exactly what is wrong. But we are made carnal and cannot obey, just as Paul said.
Rom 7:18 for I have known that there doth not dwell in me, that is, in my flesh, good: for to will is present with me, and to work that which is right I do not find,
God is giving us this "experience of evil" to teach us a very valuable lesson... that as we are, carnal, we are hopeless slaves to sin.
Ecc 1:13 And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all which is done under the heavens. It is a sad task God has given to the sons of men to be humbled by it.
Well there is a process being worked out and we are only at the beginning, for most, the many, they will die in the lost condition. But this life lived as a sinner is not the end, far from it. For a few, we are given repentance in this life and by Jesus Christ indwelling sin no longer reigns over us, as Paul said...
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
v. 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
So as you ask, "does God allow for incompetence without judgement"? No not allow, but caused, because God is sovereign and the ultimate cause of all things. And judgement is on the elect now, and for the rest of the world they will come up in the resurrection to judgement.
Here is an email for more on this.
http://bible-truths.com/email14.htm -------------------
"Wherefore God also has highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name. That at the name of JESUS every knee should bow [that's worship], of things [them] in heaven, and them in earth, and them under the earth; And that every tongue should CONFESS that Jesus Christ IS LORD [that's REPENTANCE, and it can ONLY be done by the in-dwelling of God's Holy Spirit, '...no man CAN say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit' I Cor. 12:3], to the glory of God the Father" (Phil. 2;9-11).
v
Phil. 2:9-11, where EVERY KNEE AND EVERY TONGUE bows and confesses that Jesus is LORD AND MASTER OF THEIR LIVES! Where do you see in these verses FAILURE to believe and accept Jesus?
v
"WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, through FAITH." GRACE IS FREE. GRACE SAVES US. Nothing but the GRACE OF JESUS CHRIST SAVES US--NOTHING ELSE! And we didn't "come to Christ," the Father DRAGGED US" (John 6:44), and we have not "chosen Christ," but rather Christ has "chosen us" (John 15:16).
v
Once God GRACES His true elect, He then TEACHES, TRAINS, DISCIPLINES, CORRECTS, PUNISHES, CHASTISES us to live GODLY LIVES IN AN UNGODLY WORLD (Titus 2:11).
Grace is a VERB that does and accomplishes something in the true believer. It conquers the WORLD and its LUSTS inside of the true believer. Did Saul/Paul "ASK TO BE SAVED" on the road to Damascus? Well, DID HE?
-------------------------------------------------------------
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Joel:
God is truly loving, even in his judgements. He without a doubt knew the answers to all the questions, but he also gets up close and personal with individuals.
As he did with Abraham, and Lot before he brought judgement on the cities of the plain. It not only lets us see God's view point, but his people as well when he asked questions.
How much was known about death and dieing before the fall?
God is the master potter, forming us in the womb and continues making us to his liking, some pleasing and some not so pleasing for the rest of our lives.
How many despise the Word of God? Are there things in his Word that I wish were not in the Bible? I know I use to avoid some things, that aren't a problem now.
If we do good, and eschew evil ( shun ) we won't be the workers of iniquity that he will say to; "I never knew you."
Joel
Gina:
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on August 02, 2012, 03:11:31 PM ---
Sounds a lot like myself here Dave - frustrated that from my perspective Im never ever gonna be perfect or at least there seems so much work to do due to the humoungous pile of trash thats gotta be dealt with ...everyone else seems to be hunky dory goood students and here am I just fallin and crawlin.
--- End quote ---
Sounds a lot like me too, Ian! Take heart -- look who God calls! :)
26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth.
27 But God chose what is foolish [THAT'S ME!] in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak [ME AGAIN!] in the world to shame the strong;
28 God chose what is low and despised in the world [ME AGAIN!], even things that are not [the "nobody's" the "nothings" -- ME HERE TOO!], to bring to nothing things that are,
29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”
________________________________
You're in my prayers, Ian. :)
Deborah-Leigh:
;D ROFL...Hey Ian, I love that you don't let up!
--- Quote from: Ian 155 on August 02, 2012, 02:51:21 PM ---Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
By most replys,Gods Will, it seems is for us to do/listen to, these instructions listed above or does God allow for incompetence without judgement
I underlined Allow especially for you Arc :)) strong verse that ...thanks
--- End quote ---
For starters, can you or I or anyone NOT give place to the devil, of their own free will? NO! LOL ~ ;D
You want to stop sinning and the more you try and the more you clean out your house, the more devils move in! LOL....It is a lesson in humility! lol.
GOD CAUSES EVIL IN THE CITY
Let’s take a close look at that last Scripture in our list:
“…shall there be evil [Heb: ra—‘bad, evil’] in a city, and the Lord has not done it? (Amos 3:6)
There’s the question; what’s the answer? The answer from all Christendom is “Yes.” “Yes” there shall be all kinds of evil in a city, and the Lord has not done it. In fact, according to their teaching, the Lord does no evil in any city, ever. World famous teacher/preacher/theologian/author, Billy Graham said before a packed house in the National Cathedral, that GOD DOES NOT CREATE EVIL. But what saith the Scriptures (Amos 3:4-6):
“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Answer: NO!
“Will a lion roar in the forest, when he has not prey?"
Answer: NO!
“Will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing?"
Answer: NO!
“Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin [baited trap] is for him?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall one take up a snare [shall a snare spring up] from the earth, and have taken [caught] nothing at all?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid?"
Answer: NO!
“Shall there be EVIL in a city and the LORD HAS NOT DONE IT?"
Answer: NO!
The Answer is “NO”!
I am now speaking to the mature only. This information is too heavy, too hard, too overwhelming for the carnal-minded person. Have you ever wondered just where it is that the proverbial “rubber meets the road?” Well, right here is where the rubber meets the road. If you don’t accept; if you cannot accept, if you will not accept the truth of all these double-witness Scriptures presented above, then you will never understand God’s plan of salvation for the human race.
Seven times in Amos 3 God asks us a question, and SEVEN TIMES THE ANSWER IS “NO”! NO, there shall not be EVIL in a city [any city—all cities] unless THE LORD HAS DONE IT! The truth of this Scripture (along with hundreds and hundreds like it) is so powerful, so absolutely earth-shattering, that the mere fact of me quoting it and suggesting that it is a true statement, will evoke hate mail from far and wide.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-C.html
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version