> General Discussions
are there any discussions on why the "fall"was allowed
longhorn:
I hate computers and they hate me. Read Ray's " Why are we Here" e-mail. Mabey someone with actual skills can post that link.
Longhorn
Gina:
I think I see what you're saying, Ian. I'm not sure I can mirror back to you clearly what I see, but I will try, so bear with me, because this is an interesting topic and one that hits close to my heart.
It sounds like you're asking: would this be the approach that God uses with us each time we stumble and fall every day of our lives?
My understanding is, if you are the elect of God, it is not possible to be deceived by Satan ever again. Yes, we will still sin; but I don't believe that God drives the elect from the "Tree of Life," but rather He gives us the ability to repent through his kindness -- that is what leads to repentance after all. And He doesn't stop there--no! He goes on to CLEANS US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS so we can obey Him; so that we go on to actually DO what's RIGHT. (In my case as it was yesterday - praying for those who persecute us and treat us badly.)
If you believe [obey] God you will not be treated like someone who doesn't believe God. See, Eve didn't believe God; she believed the lie because she was deceived
You will be TEMPTED TO BELIEVE THE LIE, but it will not be possible for you to believe because God won't let you believe it.
If you are the elect, you won't believe the lie and you won't be driven from the Tree of Life; and God will not be asking you "where are you, Ian?" because you know where you are and how you got there--right? No need to ask or try and figure it out, right? (And yes, I know that God isn't asking "where are you" as if He doesn't know himself; of course He does; but when we're steeped in sin and disobedient, we don't know--so He asks us "where are you?" As if to say, You're not where you ought to be.")
Hebrews 4
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”
although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.”
5 And again in this passage he said,
“They shall not enter my rest.”
6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
. . .
9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, [God's people are not driven away from the Tree of Life by God like Adam and Eve were, and there are no thorns and thistles on that Tree. :)]
10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his [own] works as God did from his.
11 Let us therefore strive to enter that rest [sounds a little oxymoronic - "strive to enter rest"--it's like, huh? what?], so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
13 And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Jesus the Great High Priest
14 Since then we [the elect, not those who don't really believe God] have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. [1 Tim 4:10 For this we labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God, Who is the savior of ALL men, especially those that believe [believe God].]
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us then with confidence [boldly] draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
We die to self daily. Daily we are saved by grace through faith. Each day we are judged [ if you judge YOURSELF you will not be condemned (like Adam and Eve were) with the world ] Are we coming out of the world? Or are we going along with the lies? I am not going along with the lies but when I am tempted and if I DO sin, I know that I have an advocate who is familiar with the temptation to sin, yet without sinning, who understands my weaknesses and to whom I can draw near to for well-timed help just when I need it, so let us draw boldly to the throne of grace (this couldn't be more fitting a subject for the day I had today! I get so scared sometimes, so this is really helpful for me to talk about, Ian--what a blessing to me this subject is.) We believe God , who is TEACHING us with kindness that leads to repentance (in attitude and action) so we can overcome our sin. "Sin shall no longer have dominion over you."
And if we are the elect, then we need to be given access to the "Tree of Life." Right? I mean, Adam and Eve were driven from the Tree of Life so that they couldn't live, right? But if Christ lives in us then though we are dead, we live; or rather Christ lives in us.
Tell me if that makes any sense, Ian, or anyone!
mharrell08:
Just because God asked questions to Adam & Eve doesn't mean anything was a surprise to Him. Often times, parents and teachers ask questions to students, that they already know the answer to, as a teaching tool. Our entire lives are teaching tools for us to become sons & daughters of God.
Dave in Tenn:
http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#will
Mighta been this one too.
Ian 155:
--- Quote from: longhorn on August 02, 2012, 06:32:09 AM ---This e-mail to Ray may help answer some of your qhttp://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#whyuestions.
--- End quote ---
See the problem... the q for "question" is in the wrong place
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