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[Ian 155]

All prayer is answered.  It's just not answered the way we want.

Jesus prayed that the cup of suffering would be taken from Him.  The Father's answer was no.

When I understood that Jesus' request was turned down, I knew I was screwed.  If He told Jesus no, I knew He wouldn't hesitate to tell me NO.

So now, all my prayers are Your (The Father) Will Be Done because I do not know my coming out or going in.  So now all my prayers are answered; I have a 100% success rate.
[/quote]

Hey John

Ive lost you ........ all my prayers are YOUR [the Father] ....100% sucess rate - what did you say here ?

[John from Kentucky]

All prayer is answered.  It's just not answered the way we want.

Jesus prayed that the cup of suffering would be taken from Him.  The Father's answer was no.

When I understood that Jesus' request was turned down, I knew I was screwed.  If He told Jesus no, I knew He wouldn't hesitate to tell me NO.

So now, all my prayers are Your (The Father) Will Be Done because I do not know my coming out or going in.  So now all my prayers are answered; I have a 100% success rate.

Hey John

Ive lost you ........ all my prayers are YOUR [the Father] ....100% sucess rate - what did you say here ?
[/quote]

Hi Ian,

All my prayers are answered because there is only one type of prayer that I pray.  And that prayer is the Father's will be done.  Therefore, every one of my prayers is answered.  God gives me what I ask for every time.  Thus a 100% success rate.   

The scriptures also speak of praying without ceasing.  Continuous prayer.  I am always in contact with God.  Sometimes I speak.  Sometimes I am quiet.  Sometimes I just roll scriptures over in my mind; some I understand; some are a mystery.  But when the line is kept open with God you are never alone and have a profound peace.  Jesus spoke of this.  Ray has an article on prayer which is very good.

John

[John from Kentucky]

Not sure if you're speaking personally, John but if you are, Congrats!
If I however were to state that all prayers are answered, I would be glib or dishonest.

Case in point, my cousin Garth who died two years ago from brain cancer after a prolonged illness.

I had prayed God's will be done in that situation, yes.  So from that viewpoint the prayer was answered as God's will was done even though Garth died.

I had also constantly prayed that Garth would be healed and not die, yet Garth died.

So in one way my prayer was answered; while my prayer from my heart that he be healed and live, was not.

Wow, I wish that I were in contact with God 'always'. When I am engaged in watching a movie or having a beer or feeling pain in my back and knee, I don't think I am praying. I wish I were, but in all honesty... nah

How do you speak if not personally?

In February 2005, my father collapsed, never regained consciousness, and died a month later.  I didn't want him to die.  I miss him very much.  I didn't know how to heal him so I left it in God's hands and asked that God's will be done.  God answered my prayer.

The LORD gives.  The LORD takes.  Praise be to the LORD.

[newgene87]

So with all this said; Prayer is Worship that keeps in fellowship with God. We don't know God's doings, we wont know. But if we pray ALWAYS that His Will Be Done; are prayers are always answered and at the same time, depending on maturity, we're COMFORTED at the SOVEREIGNTY of God. Well I am. Knowing that I that DONT have a free will, I am not the captain of my fate or whatever, i am not the decider of my future; and that Prayer is the ONLY way I can commune with the Almighty God....THAT IS WHAT PRAYER IS ALL ABOUT. And not just that, While we worship in Spirit and Truth, Jesus abides in us and we have the earnest of the Spirit, which is truth and of truth, we have a taste of the life to come. We become inspired by God, influenced of His Grace, strength for the day, force to live; that's why Paul admonished us to pray without ceasing and to pray in everything. Our flesh is strengthless, and we can succomb to that weakness without practice -- prayer is the principle for us. So all in all

"Your Will Be done Lord"

Eugene

[Ian 155]

Ah ok thanks John - what is the prayer of faith/offered in faith ? spoken of in James 5 15

[John from Kentucky]

Ah ok thanks John - what is the prayer of faith/offered in faith ? spoken of in James 5 15

I do not know.

Faith is belief.  All prayers are prayers of faith because to pray to God you must believe that He exists and is the Sovereign God and He hears and answers all prayer according to His will, not our own will.

[newgene87]

Ah ok thanks John - what is the prayer of faith/offered in faith ? spoken of in James 5 15

Good question. I did a look on that verse; and that word is not the usual word for "Prayer". Its used only 3 times (i believe), and it's translated VOW 2 other times. maybe that's important??? "vow of prayer"

eugene

[Ian 155]

Yeh fits with what John said to Pray without ceasing

[gmik]

When do thoughts become a "prayer"?  How do you know its not just rambling synapses in the brain?  Do you have to formally say "dear" jesus, heavenly father or whatever, to officially count?

 A kabillion people are "thinking" prayers that are all just in their head. We are all praying for world peace or healings or riches yet, yet, not getting answered.  2 teams playing a sport, both sides have christians "praying"-

 It is ALL Gods' Will---our thoughts just make US feel better or like we are actually doing something to help someone


obviously I am having trouble w/ all this---I do like the worship/prayer greek meaning being so similar..helps me understand Paul telling us to pray w/o ceasing when that is impossible to do!!

I like the idea of living my life AS THE prayer...I don't need to bless my veggies before i eat cuz i am always greatful to God for His blessings...I trust Him and His plan so I don't beg/think thoughts about it...well, that is what i am working on anyway.....thanks for letting me get this out in print...if you take it off i understand i guess...as usual i am trying to let rays' work guide me thru this

[Gina]

No worries, Gena.  Grant it, not every thought is inspired by the Holy Spirit.   

Check this out:   http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13787.msg121567.html#msg121567

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.msg116701.html#msg116701:

    It’s not wrong to say ‘grace’ or whatever. But I don’t bow my head and say these vocal prayers out loud when I eat a sandwich. I’m always thankful for what I have. I’m always praying, all day every day. There isn’t a day goes by that I don’t pray 50-60 times or 70-80 times, I just pray. My thoughts are prayers, my meditation is prayers, I just think like God is there, that’s the way that I think, .

    I’ve told you that God is Spirit, He’s everywhere. He’s not sitting up there on a throne where you have to raise your voice so He hears you. So if you are praying silently… like I put in that paper that I wrote on prayer, ‘Praying by God’s Rules,’ I pray myself to sleep virtually every night of my life. That’s how I go to sleep, I don’t count sheep, I pray myself to sleep.

    Last night I’m praying about today, praying about what I should talk about. You know, ‘help me give these people something worthy to take back home with them, so they will be really glad that they came and feel that they profited spiritually.’ I just pray about that and I pray about it and prayer goes into meditation and meditation goes back into prayer and pretty soon I’m asleep. Then I wake up and I don’t remember when I fell asleep, but all I know is I prayed myself to sleep.

  ~L. Ray Smith

(Emphasis my own.)


Matt: 6:7-15  But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.  Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.  Pray then like this [_{in other words, this is HOW we are to pray--meaning, this must be our mindset and the place from where we are coming in our hearts when we do pray; Jesus isn't laying down the precise wording we are to use when we pray.}]:

“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.

Your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Jesus said:  And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.  Matt 21:22 

Admittedly, I don't quite have that one figured out yet, but my humble opinion which may not be worth a hill of beans (or enough for a cup of coffee, Craig? ) is this:  In order to really believe you're going to get from God what you're asking for it has to be with the understanding that we are praying for what ACCORDS WITH GOD'S WILL, we aren't to be praying in anger (or against someone); and we must be honest and realize  that whatever we may be asking for we may not get it instantaneously as we were once led to believe.

I really hope that helps.  I didn't mean to mislead anyone about thoughts equaling prayers.

[Ian 155]

Aha I was/have been asking our Lord what I should pray about regarding certain things going down right now,also have in mind not to be repetitive,

Dave quoted a scripture yesterday on a totaly different topic which caused my whole inside to leap and this is it

Joh 4:47  The man heard that Jesus had come from Judea and was now in Galilee. So he went to Jesus and begged him to come to Capernaum and heal his son, who was almost dead.
Joh 4:48  Jesus said to him, "You people must see miraculous signs and wonders before you will believe in me." My Prayer is that we all begin to see Miraculous signs and wonders as is the case with the official in the above scripture - point Jesus is making [I think] is we need to see miracles or we will not believe

[HoneyLamb56]

I must confess that my prayer life really sucks at times.  I seem to go thru dry spells; am I just lazy?  probably; it seems my prayers get repititious (years) or I just don't seem to have a passion to pray; then I read or hear something or feel guilty and begin to pray again.  I'm sure there are many like myself.  So is it the work of the "Holy spirit" bringing me back? as it is the Holy spirit that leads us in what to pray about.

I thank God that He doesn't feel too tired to be bothered!! and doesn't give up on me.

Thanks for this thread.

PS:when my sister-in-law was dying of cancer we prayed for her and her "church" prayed, etc.  She became very discouraged because she had heard of other successful outcomes but she wasn't getting better; she stated "so why bother praying, it's not helping me."  She did not understand prayer and yet her son was a minister in the "church".  My heart went out to her and to others that don't understand.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi Ian.  It's not about lack of signs, its about lack of faith. 

BELIEVE that I am in the Father and the Father in me.  Or IF NOT, believe me for the works sake.

The miraculous signs were given NOT for those who believe, but for those who do NOT believe.

1Co 1:22  For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

I'm not a big fan of miracles.  To be honest, I wish there were fewer miracles in Scripture.  Sorry, just telling the truth.  The only miracle I need for my real life is resurrection, otherwise everything is pointless.  I 'believe' in the miracles, but the only good they do me is as symbols of SPIRITUAL things in my life.  They've also done me good in helping me to come out of babylon, as MANY will come in His name doing signs and wonders and will decieve the world.

I prayed for Ray to be healed completely.  I believe, however, that this corruption MUST put on incorruption, and this mortal MUST put on immortality.

WHATEVER your position, own it.  What God requires is honesty.

Here's my miracle.  It works for me.  For twenty years I had left the church and left all concious effort to fellowship with God.  Indeed, as far away as I could be was where I wanted to be.  He never left me, however, even when I wanted Him to.  I had a heart attack.  Very nearly died, and was weak for months afterward.  Still didn't want to follow God.  But one night I thought to pray.  I hadn't prayed in ten years, and as far as I knew, I wouldn't pray again for another ten.

So I prayed and asked God for a new heart.  Pretty dang bold for a guy who hadn't prayed in a decade, but I figured I might as well go for broke.  Oh the headlines that would inspire.  "GOD Gives Tennessee Man New Heart".

It was a few more years from that, and about four and one half years ago from now, I stumbled onto B-T and God answered my prayer.  I didn't even know then that he had, and it wasn't until I 'looked back' that I could see it.       

Joh 20:28,29  And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

That's what I meant in that post. 

 

[gmik]

i just re read thread....i don't think we answered the original question:

If we "pray" that it be according to God's Will and He always DOES His Will---then I still dont know what is prayer all about? 

why bother to pray??  we believe God and all is according to His will- what is there to pray about....really, get right down to it, peel away the onion layers as it were, put aside religiousity and debating.....it just makes us feel better.

I can't figure out why Jesus told us (or was it just to the jews?) to......i don't need any more scriptures to read or asking for more debate....maybe there is no answer-if we want to be brutally honest about it...

[newgene87]

i just re read thread....i don't think we answered the original question:

If we "pray" that it be according to God's Will and He always DOES His Will---then I still dont know what is prayer all about? 

why bother to pray??  we believe God and all is according to His will- what is there to pray about....really, get right down to it, peel away the onion layers as it were, put aside religiousity and debating.....it just makes us feel better.

I can't figure out why Jesus told us (or was it just to the jews?) to......i don't need any more scriptures to read or asking for more debate....maybe there is no answer-if we want to be brutally honest about it...

GREAT POINT. even though Ive UNLEARNED the freewill myth, praying gives me a false sense of it. I don't even know what to pray for cause it's gonna be whatever His will is. It's comforting and discouraging at the same time. Like now, I prayed for a particular job and that his will would done. Im not eligible for the job so his will is still done, but WHY PRAY if it's anything and everything is gonna happen according to his will anyway?? Don't get me wrong. I STAY in worship, reading, pondering, meditating, giving thanks... But why pray?? Even in his paper on the Fathers Will, Ray gives a newer idea on who God is, the Father and Jesus -- if our relationship to God is how fish relate to water and birds relate to air....WHY PRAY IF GOD IS RIGHT THERE and already knows? Thats silly for a fish to be praying for anything when the "water" is gonna supply his needs through it's (the water) working. I relate God to "the Force" in "Star Wars". He's only in His elect...but whatever, Praying seems to be useless after knowing God is gonna work everything after the counsel of His will. And

Proverbs 19:21
There are many devices in a man's heart;
nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

After knowing we don't have a free will, God is Sovereign and almighty - I see the only thing to pray is that His will be done and to walk in His wisdom. Praying for things seem vain. But hey just my thoughts.

[Kat]

Hi Gena,

i just re read thread....i don't think we answered the original question:

If we "pray" that it be according to God's Will and He always DOES His Will---then I still dont know what is prayer all about?

 

I think I can understand what you are saying. I can give you what my own preception of prayer is. I think we need as much cantact with God as we can get... we can study to learn what God says in Scripture... meditate on what we have studied, I think our continued thought on it helps us gain a better comprehension... but I think prayer is a important way I can talk to God. Certainly God already knows all of my thoughts and what I will always do, as He is sovereign and the ultimate cause of everything, but I don't know. My contact with Him is a effort to draw closer and seek to understand.

For me prayer is a form of showing Him my love and adoration of Him. It requires me to make an effort, to free my mind of other cares and focus only on God. It takes time to stop what I'm doing and direct my thoughts to God and to me that is showing my respect for who He is and is a form of worship. It's my feeble little way of telling Him how much I love and adore Him and I a way I can give Him thanks for my blessings. Now I do share my hopes and dreams and desires too and a lot of times just organizing these thoughts in my head and voicing these things out to Him helps me put them in perspective and better understand or maybe rethink some things. But really it's just me giving of my time to Him. What good father does not want to hear what their child has to say... and I would think God our Father certainly has that same desire from us.

I think when our mind is focused on spiritual things (study, meditation, prayer) is when we ascend into the heavens. The more time we spend there the better it is for our spiritual development.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Ian 155]

Dave does that then  cut short,ask and you will recieve Jas 1:5  Do any of you need wisdom? Ask God for it. He is generous and enjoys giving to everyone. So he will give you wisdom.
Jas 1:6  But when you ask God, you must believe. Don't doubt him. Whoever doubts is like a wave in the sea that is blown up and down by the wind.
 
I am instructed to ask God - this is prayer and if I do not doubt [pull a thomas] I will get wisdom from God Thomas was dealt with in a lot of grace then because he stated he would Not believe Unlessss...

The disciples saw great miracles does that mean they are unbelieveing?aparently yes, however they had to start somewhere why were these people caused to ask for these miracles? so they would believe ?.

Thomas had to go thru "I will not believe unless I see bit" and we need the same likewise Peter on the rough sea and and and... so they were placed in these circumstances which required  prayer likewise we are put in circumstances which require prayer so God placed you in a position to ask for a new heart you prayed and got one so prayer is a must or rather God will cause you to pray , if you are placed in a position to call on our Lord when you have scripture to base your prayer on - Jesus said to the Father "Why have you forsaken me"? when he knew it was Gods will - just saying I think prayer is far more than normal communication although it can be.

Is it possible not to heed God when he tells us to pray ? the disciples fell asleep

[Rene]

Due to an experience I am going through, I've been noticing something about man's concept of prayer.

My mother is terminally ill and hospice has been called in to assist in her last days.  Certain family members have been organizing "prayer requests" and "prayer vigils" from their church members and friends on behalf of my mother.  Of course, there is nothing wrong with asking for prayers, but they seem to think the more people they can pull together to pray for my mother, the more likely she will be healed or something.  I just find it odd and "weird" how people think they have the "power" to save someones life if enough of them get together and pray for them.

Prayer, to me, is a way to show humility and respect for my Creator.  I need Him in every way possible, therefore, I communicate to Him often.  I trust Him and depend on Him to sustain me through every moment of my life.  He's doing an excellent job, btw!

René

[onelovedread]

I hear that Rene. I believe that difficult circumstances expose the void and the need for humans to worship a Superior Being, that can only be filled by God.
Another indication to me that God created in man a need for the spiritual ... another piece of evidence that all men will ultimately be saved.

[newgene87]

Due to an experience I am going through, I've been noticing something about man's concept of prayer.

My mother is terminally ill and hospice has been called in to assist in her last days.  Certain family members have been organizing "prayer requests" and "prayer vigils" from their church members and friends on behalf of my mother.  Of course, there is nothing wrong with asking for prayers, but they seem to think the more people they can pull together to pray for my mother, the more likely she will be healed or something.  I just find it odd and "weird" how people think they have the "power" to save someones life if enough of them get together and pray for them.

Prayer, to me, is a way to show humility and respect for my Creator.  I need Him in every way possible, therefore, I communicate to Him often.  I trust Him and depend on Him to sustain me through every moment of my life.  He's doing an excellent job, btw!

René

Good way of point that out. It really does seem like man's concept of "prayer" is a concept of "power". Definitely if we get enough people ("where two or three are gathered in my name...), and they "humble themselves and pray" (God would "hear them from the heavens, and forgive heir sins, and heal their land ~ 2Ch 7:14) --- well, put like that, the formula seems to declare "if we gather and pray, God will hear us and heal us".... But what can't be compromised is the Sovereignty of God and His will bein done.....I believe you just gave me the balance. It is "a way to show humility", to humble and hear, and even ask and believe - but always know, "...your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him (Mat 6:.

So thank you Rene. You helped me on this matter.

Eugene