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Author Topic: Generational Curses??  (Read 2107 times)

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newgene87

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Generational Curses??
« on: August 11, 2012, 08:31:14 PM »

I use to hear this alot in my old church that Christ can break generational "curses", and Ray taught, "if you heard it from church, its probably not true" and i for the most part, believe that. But is Generational Curses scriptural and true? does the "apple dont fall from the tree" SCRIPTURAL. I know there are many "doctines that are commandments of men" so Im seeking the truth on this matter. The only verse I saw that sort of corelates is Lamentations 5:7 - "Our fathers have sinned, and are not; and we have borne their iniquities." But is that what its really teaching? Would appreciate all input.

And to throw this in as well, what does it mean, that Christ "Breaks the yoke" or God will "destroy the yoke in your life". I think its mostly a southern black church lingo so it may go over your heads but i'm just wondering; is this SCRIPTURAL?? or does it even make sense ;D  when i read over it, it doesnt make sense. well thank you all and love you all

Eugene
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gregorydc

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 12:17:59 AM »

Galatians 3:13 but Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he tookupon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree"  NLT
I think that if Jesus became the curse for us why would there be a generational curse at all?  Just my thought. Hope this scripture helps
Greg
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 12:36:39 AM »

"Generational Curses" in the oogy-boogy sense are christian fantasy.

That isn't to say that the sins of generations preceding us haven't been the cause of many of our own sins, nor that our sins will have no effect on generations after us.  Look around.  You can see it everywhere.  That's the 'generational' part.  The 'curse' part Jesus took care of, as Greg pointed out from scripture.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Joel

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 12:59:31 AM »

Jeremiah 31:29
In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teen are set on edge.

God makes it pretty clear in Ezekiel 18 how he looks at this topic, and gives a lot of examples to think about. I hope that helps.

Joel
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 01:13:38 AM »

A couple of emails.

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,2802.0.html

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,3013.0.html

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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

newgene87

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 01:31:35 AM »

A couple of emails.

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,2802.0.html

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,3013.0.html

thanks for the emails....so my question is regarding Romans 8:1...so if someone is NOT in Christ, is under a "generational curse"?? Ray uses Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation to them WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS...", so what of those NOT in Christ? I know no one can exactly speak for ray, but hopefully i can get some type of answer. I mean, i do get we are free IN CHRIST, but what of those not in Christ. Ray seems to not exactly deny generational curses but battles it that we're free in Christ.

Jeremiah 31:29
In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teen are set on edge.

God makes it pretty clear in Ezekiel 18 how he looks at this topic, and gives a lot of examples to think about. I hope that helps.

Joel

Soooooooo of that parable, what does that verse mean? :( im scared to ask cuz i feel i should get it but i dont. and i read the chapter and i feel im getting from the rest of the chapter that each individual person will bear the consequence of their sins, individually. If they turn from their righteousness they will die. if they turn from their wickedness, they will live....i think i get all that

and ANOTHER problem. this is obviously a King James error, since im CURRENTLY in the process of reading Ray's papers on Hell.

 Ezekiel 18:21 says, "If the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely ive, HE SHALL NOT DIE" --- now this is "The word of the LORD...saying..." (Ezekiel 18:1). This seems to copy the world's first lie, "...ye shall NOT SURELY DIE" (Genesis 3:4)...Now if this was in the New Testament, I can see that it would mean, "not die to the age or eons" because of Jesus Christ but would this pre-date Jesus Christ, "the RESURRECTION, and the life..." (John 11:25). why does God seem to contradict himself with those words??? need a little help on that 
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Gina

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 06:45:23 AM »

A couple of emails.

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,2802.0.html

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,3013.0.html

thanks for the emails....so my question is regarding Romans 8:1...so if someone is NOT in Christ, is under a "generational curse"?? Ray uses Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation to them WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS...", so what of those NOT in Christ? I know no one can exactly speak for ray, but hopefully i can get some type of answer. I mean, i do get we are free IN CHRIST, but what of those not in Christ. Ray seems to not exactly deny generational curses but battles it that we're free in Christ.

Jeremiah 31:29
In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teen are set on edge.

God makes it pretty clear in Ezekiel 18 how he looks at this topic, and gives a lot of examples to think about. I hope that helps.

Joel

Soooooooo of that parable, what does that verse mean? :( im scared to ask cuz i feel i should get it but i dont. and i read the chapter and i feel im getting from the rest of the chapter that each individual person will bear the consequence of their sins, individually. If they turn from their righteousness they will die. if they turn from their wickedness, they will live....i think i get all that

and ANOTHER problem. this is obviously a King James error, since im CURRENTLY in the process of reading Ray's papers on Hell.

 Ezekiel 18:21 says, "If the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely ive, HE SHALL NOT DIE" --- now this is "The word of the LORD...saying..." (Ezekiel 18:1). This seems to copy the world's first lie, "...ye shall NOT SURELY DIE" (Genesis 3:4)...Now if this was in the New Testament, I can see that it would mean, "not die to the age or eons" because of Jesus Christ but would this pre-date Jesus Christ, "the RESURRECTION, and the life..." (John 11:25). why does God seem to contradict himself with those words??? need a little help on that


First, thanks to everyone for their replies.  Especially to Dave with the emails. 

It's okay to ask questions, Eugene.  You're mistaken. :)    God's not contradicting Himself.  Remember, Satan was telling Eve to NOT believe God and to disobey Him, whereas God is telling them TO believe Him.  Big, big difference.  But we already know that it was not possible for the wicked to turn from his ways.  How on earth can a carnal-minded person turn himself from his ways.  God's not stupid -- He knows that carnal man cannot turn himself from his ways. 

Besides that, you've read: 

For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point
has become accountable for all of it.
(James 2:10)

Remember Isaiah 26:10?

If favor is shown to the wicked,
he does not learn righteousness;
in the land of uprightness he deals corruptly
and does not see the majesty of the Lord.


Why if a wicked person is shown favor (is blessed by God) does he not learn righteousness?  Because it's not fitting the bless the wicked.  It's more fitting that the wicked go through God's judgments in order to learn righteousness (Isaiah 26:9 ... when thy judgments are in the earth the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN righteousness.)

Before I was afflicted I went astray, But now I keep Your word. 

See?  Affliction (judgment) is what causes the wicked to turn from his ways and obey, not favor.  It'd be like rewarding a murderer who never repented, or felt no remorse whatsoever for his crime.  It'd be like telling him - "Good job!"

The wicked need to be put in a position where they can want the kindness of God, which will then lead them to judge themselves and turn from their ways (repent).

And, after all that, do you still believe God is contradicting Himself? 




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mharrell08

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 07:23:54 AM »

A couple of emails.

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,2802.0.html

www.forums.bible-truths.com\index.php\topic,3013.0.html

thanks for the emails....so my question is regarding Romans 8:1...so if someone is NOT in Christ, is under a "generational curse"?? Ray uses Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation to them WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS...", so what of those NOT in Christ? I know no one can exactly speak for ray, but hopefully i can get some type of answer. I mean, i do get we are free IN CHRIST, but what of those not in Christ. Ray seems to not exactly deny generational curses but battles it that we're free in Christ.


Eugene, there is no such thing as a generational curse. You'll end up running in circles trying to disprove a negative. Romans 8:1 doesn't say anything about being condemned to a generational curse. The following verse explains:

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Does this verse say 'made me free from a generational curse'? No, it says free from the law of sin and death.

While children tend to go the way of their parents, it is not a fate that they are condemned to, just the only example they have to draw on to live their life. When children have positive role models, even from outside their own household, they tend to go in a better direction in life.


Jeremiah 31:29
In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teen are set on edge.

God makes it pretty clear in Ezekiel 18 how he looks at this topic, and gives a lot of examples to think about. I hope that helps.

Joel

Soooooooo of that parable, what does that verse mean? :( im scared to ask cuz i feel i should get it but i dont. and i read the chapter and i feel im getting from the rest of the chapter that each individual person will bear the consequence of their sins, individually. If they turn from their righteousness they will die. if they turn from their wickedness, they will live....i think i get all that


The entire chapter is God declaring a new covenant with Israel. That statement in verse 29 is something the children of Israel say [v29 'In those days, THEY shall no more say'], this is not a statement that comes from God.  The saying basically means children being judged by God because of the actions of their parents. God states that in this new covenant, 'every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth [not his children] shall be set on edge.' Does this mean God believes in the saying from Israel's time, that the children are being judged by the parents actions? No, He simply used a saying they had in their time, but showed how things will really be.


and ANOTHER problem. this is obviously a King James error, since im CURRENTLY in the process of reading Ray's papers on Hell.

 Ezekiel 18:21 says, "If the wicked will turn from all his sins that he has committed and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely ive, HE SHALL NOT DIE" --- now this is "The word of the LORD...saying..." (Ezekiel 18:1). This seems to copy the world's first lie, "...ye shall NOT SURELY DIE" (Genesis 3:4)...Now if this was in the New Testament, I can see that it would mean, "not die to the age or eons" because of Jesus Christ but would this pre-date Jesus Christ, "the RESURRECTION, and the life..." (John 11:25). why does God seem to contradict himself with those words??? need a little help on that

Eugene, this verse doesn't say 'he shall NEVER die' does it? So why assume it does, knowing it contradicts everything else you know, then say this is a 'problem'. What good is it to learn things you know are true in parts of the Bible but not apply them in other parts of the same Bible? Jesus being our resurrection and life was always in view, even in the OT, that's what God is referring to when He says 'shall not die'.


Hope this helps,

Marques
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Kat

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 11:28:01 AM »


Hi Eugene,

Eze 18:21  But if the wicked will turn from all his sins which he has committed, and keep all My statutes, and do justice and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Who is speaking in this verse... "1. The Word of Jehovah came to me again, saying," this is Jehovah/God that became Jesus Christ. Is the words He spoke in the OT any different that what He says in the NT? Of course not.

Israel as God's chosen was a physical shadow of His spiritual chosen yet to come. Israel was the physically chosen... the elect are the spiritually chosen, big difference. Israel was never able to obey, because they were not converted spiritually and could not be as Christ had not yet come in the flesh. That is the lesson we learn from them and now, that without the Spirit you "cannot please God."

Rom 8:6-8  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the Law of God, neither indeed can it be. So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God.

But God always expressed what is necessary and must be done to be spiritually righteous, then and now, so in Eze 18 He did say, "keep all My statutes, and do justice and right." That was what He expected from His chosen, but He was speaking to the future 'spiritual' chosen/elect. So His next statement is also to the future spiritual chosen/elect when He said, "he shall surely live; he shall not die."

If we are chosen, we have been baptised with Christ, the Spirit is indwelling, so we have "life" and "shall not die" the spiritually/second death again with the world. So in Eze. 18:21 it is speaking of spiritual death.

Rom 6:4  Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of life.
v. 5  For if we have been joined together in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection;
v. 6  knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin.
v. 7  For he who died has been justified from sin.
v. 8  But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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newgene87

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 12:41:45 PM »

yes yes yes. 1st -  Mama Gina, you nailed it and showed me another verse i've fallen in love with. That Isaiah passage and Psalm passage just makes sense. Now no WAY possible did i begin to believe God contradicted Himself....no no no...may i be accursed to never speaking a word again!! I KNEW there was an explaination for it. I was simply confused for a bit. That's why i LOVE the value of asking questions. and i truly learned 5x more than i did 20 minutes ago ;D.

Marques, thanks to you as well! Thank you for clearing that up. I definitely wasnt trying to defend the thought of Generational Curses, i just know two sides to a theory and i want to make sure i get the answers to disprove both sides. and me and my assuming  ;D. again, I love the value of questions... no no...i know i can ask the the right questions to the RIGHT PEOPLE and they wil give me a sound answer.  ;D ;D

and Mama Kat. I knew you would come along soon. Thank you for covering that message of Life that I was missing. I was blinded by the fact the message came from the prophet in Ezekiel, NOT EVEN REALIZING it's the SAME WORD, which was made flesh, dwelt among us, was, is, will Be Jesus the Christ yadayadayada, Jesus Christ speaks in parables that NO ONE WILL UNDERSTAND. hahaha silly me. I feel like i just got a spiritual whoopin and it steered me the right way. Thank you. I got it, i got it now. I know what to say if this is ever brought up in my presence and it's ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS PROVEN TO ME OVER AND OVER AGAIN, the Scriptures do not contradict. It's always man's perspective that's the problem.

sooooooooooo thank you for your replies and clearing that up for me. *always seeking truth*
glad i found the right place to seek it, then to ask, and knock  ;D ;D

Eugene
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Gina

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Re: Generational Curses??
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 01:38:41 PM »

Oh good!  I'm glad you're satisfied. 

Love ya Mister Brother -- you are such a sweetie, Eugene.  :)

Mama G~  ;D
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