Tares in contrast to Chaff

[newgene87]

So, I just learned something PROFOUND (well, to me) out of Rays paper on the Sermon on the Mount. And as much as I've read the gospels I've never caught on to the significance of its differences. First, his statement...

"Whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His [threshing] floor, and gather His wheat [wheat is good] into the garner, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire" (Matt. 3:12).

Chaff is the bracts enclosing the good, mature wheat, which is removed during threshing-it has no value as food, and so is burned like the wood, hay, and stubble of I Cor. 3:12. The Elect are composed of both the valuable wheat and the worthless chaff, but we are not the tares. Notice that the chaff is "burned up... with unquenchable fire." If this "unquenchable fire" "burns up" the chaff, surely it cannot be eternal. Unquenchable has nothing to do with eternal. Unquenchable fires is Scriptures that are not allowed to be quenched before they are allowed to burn themselves out.

So, the Elect are composed of WHEAT AND CHAFF - I love that. But the elect have nothing to do with tares. For I see, "...the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sows THEM is the devil..." (Mat 13:38) and the tares are gathered in bundles and burned (v. 30). Gosh that is glorious to me . 

But for some clarity, arent the CHAFF compared or even represent the UNGODLY

"The UNGODLY not so, but like the CHAFF which the wind drives away" (Psa 1:4)

Psalms 35:5
Let them be as chaff before the wind:
and let the angel of the Lord chase them.

Most assuredly, John the baptist doesn't contradict this and Jesus does manage his threshing floor of wheat and chaff  - but where is the balance there? How much DIFFERENT IS Chaff and Tares according to the scriptures? Regarding being "bad" and the CHAFF are part of the Elect and the TARES are not. I believe I got this much and please correct me if I'm off: the chaff will go through Jesus Gehenna Fire judgment and the Tares in the Lake of Fire?? Of course it's Gods CONSUMING fire - but where's the balance. Aren't the ungodly just as bad as tares? Thanks for the replies

Always yearning
Eugene

[dave]

I don't believe so, the chaff is what is being judged now, should you be the elect. Yes, it may be as bad as the un holy but it is a temporal thing the Holy Spirit has made you to realize must be overcome. The tares are those who have not been enlightened and will go through the second death.
At least that is how I have been given to understand. I am always open to reproof and instruction. He is King.

But I might add my friend you do read all the words, and that is a good thing. 

[newgene87]

I don't believe so, the chaff is what is being judged now, should you be the elect. Yes, it may be as bad as the un holy but it is a temporal thing the Holy Spirit has made you to realize must be overcome. The tares are those who have not been enlightened and will go through the second death.
At least that is how I have been given to understand. I am always open to reproof and instruction. He is King.

But I might add my friend you do read all the words, and that is a good thing. 

Ahhhhhhhhhh I believe that does ring a bell...

"as therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; SO SHALL IT BE IN THE END OF THE AIONS... And shall cast them into a furnace of fire..." (Matthew 13:40-42)

Well that enlightened me alot . Would love more so I can get closerer and closerer to a full understanding

Thanks
Eugene

[Dave in Tenn]

There are tares, and there are wheat.  The tares (a wheat-looking plant) are the many called.  The wheat are the few chosen.  They grow up together, but are seperated at harvest.  At harvest, the chaff of the wheat is removed and burned away.  Harvest for the wheat is now (not just now in 2012, but 'now' in the lives of all the chosen in every generation).

Always remember that the focus of the parable should be on it's meaning, and not on all the components of the symbols.  Otherwise we have fire warming and keeping alive chaff and works.  That's certainly not what is being taught in this parable OR it's spiritual match in 1 Corinthians.

David in Psalms is not specifically talking about 'chaff'.  He's talking about his enemies being scattered LIKE chaff.  HIS simile concerns that.  We have to be careful 'establishing truth' with two or three wtinesses, that these witnesses match spiritually and not compare physical with spiritual.  Just the presence of the same word does not a spiritual match make.  The presence of the same word is good for understanding what that word means, but we should be careful not to get carried away.  Scripture still does not (and must not be made to) contradict.

That being said, there may be a good parallel for a true New Covenant believer to pray as David did that the chaff in us (me) which is enemy be driven away in the wind.  That is the process of 'threshing' in a nutshell, after all.  I don't believe it is Doctrine (teaching) but I think it is fine as Admonition (what I'd call preaching).

There's my dry as chaff answer.  I hope it's not wood, hay, or stubble. 
   

[Gina]

You mean, dry LIKE chaff.  he he   Very well done as far as I'm concerned, Dave.  Thank you.

[Dave in Tenn]

Just want to add personally that I share your enthusiasm when all these connections with scripture we already "know" begin to click.  Those 'spiritual synapses' firing and making this relate to that, and that relate to this, and this making sense making that make sense are WONDERFUL!  I know I've had a good day when it happens, and some days are so full of them that it's hard to contain it. 

And for me, at least, it happens in moments when I'm not studying or reading as well as when I am.  I can be watching television or just wandering around the house and some piece of scripture I may not have heard for years (and trust me, there were a LOT of years I didn't hear any scripture at all) falls into the 'logic' of the Gospel.

Physically and emotionally I'm not in a great place right now, and I hope a sincere warning that we have to stay grounded in truth doesn't come over like a wet blanket quenching the Spirit.  Over and over again whenever I've been pulled back to what is true, the truth is so much better by contrast that I just want to stay there.

So anyways, that's that.       

[Deborah-Leigh]

Hi Eugene

It is all ONE. ~

Jesus comes to us as a Comforter, but also as a Refiner. All the symbolic, spiritual fires of Scripture are the same fire. The fire of Gehenna, eonian fire, unquenchable fire, furnace of fire, salted with fire, fire already kindled, God's consuming fire, chaff burning fire, tares burning fire, fiery trials, ministry of flaming fire, and lake of fire are all the same spiritual consuming fire of God. And they all accomplish the same thing--THEY PURIFY!

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm


"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED" (I Tim.2:4).

http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html

[levycarneiro]

Just adding some notes...

Psalms 35:5
Let them be as chaff before the wind:
and let the angel of the Lord chase them.

Interesting that the Concordant Version of the Old Testament renders this as:

5 May they become like trash before the wind,
With a messenger of Yahweh expelling them
6 Let their way become dark and slick surfaced
With a messenger of Yahweh pursuing them.

First it renders it as trash, interesting. And the messenger is not chasing it, he's expelling them (makes more sense). Only in verse 6 he does pursue them.

[Kat]

I would like to continue with Dave's line of thinking on this. We all know that wheat is a grain plant. Tares/darnel is a ryegrass which looks much like wheat in its early stages of growth, but is not edible. The 'chaff' is not a plant, but the husk, a dry, scaly protective casing of the wheat grain. Chaff is not edible, nor desirable with the wheat, so it is remove. One way to get rid of the chaff is by thrashing, since it is light and fluffy and blows away easily and then it's piled up and burned.

So in the parable, the wheat is the elect and the tares are those who come among us, but are not truly converted. The chaff represents the unwanted part on the wheat/elect and is the same thing as the wood, hay and stubble mentioned in Scripture.

1Co 3:12-13  And if anyone builds on this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble, each ones work shall be revealed. For the Day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try each ones work as to what kind it is.

So in the parable the chaff of the wheat is like that being spoken of here in 1 Cor. "wood, hay, stubble," it's represents a person undesirable 'works' and that's the part that needs to be removed and burned.

1Co 3:14  If anyone's work which he built remains, he shall receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work shall be burned up, he shall suffer loss. But he shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[newgene87]

Thanks Dave and mama kat  or should I say papa Dave? . I got it and it makes sense. So just to add a question here; would the "chaff" "of "wheat" be in comparison to "dross" of "precious metals"??

Proverbs 25:4
Take away the dross from the silver,
and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer.

It makes sense to me somehow I just wanna make sure it's according to truth tho. And wouldn't "tares" be part of the "wood, hay, and stubble" since all will eventually be "burned....and saved, yet as by fire??" I hope im not making it difficult, just want to be faithful an committed to thought of scripture and praying that I be guided in truth. So other than that; I pretty much got it.

[Dave in Tenn]

So just to add a question here; would the "chaff" "of "wheat" be in comparison to "dross" of "precious metals"??

Proverbs 25:4
Take away the dross from the silver,
and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer.

Yes.

It makes sense to me somehow I just wanna make sure it's according to truth tho. And wouldn't "tares" be part of the "wood, hay, and stubble" since all will eventually be "burned....and saved, yet as by fire??" I hope im not making it difficult, just want to be faithful an committed to thought of scripture and praying that I be guided in truth. So other than that; I pretty much got it.

Maybe. 

Wheat and tares are people.  Chaff, dross, wood, hay, stubble are what has got to come out of people.  Don't overthink what happens to the tares.  We have a God who can change water into wine and smash and refashion clay vessels into whatever He wants.  And we know what He wants.  He'll get it, even with the tares.

[newgene87]

Wheat and tares are people.  Chaff, dross, wood, hay, stubble are what has got to come out of people


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh oh the sigh of relief to understanding. I get it. THAT'S the major difference. Thanks pop. Can I call you pop? I call my dad pop. Hope it's okay . But glory be to God. Thanks for the clarification

Eugene

[the truth]

Hello
Just a thought..

AS we become the fruit.the fruit...... bows down and Harvest.It falls in the ground and dies.And brings up more fruit=...disciples.We die ..He died...they die..die to self,die daily and bears the fruit.

When the tares and wheat grow up in agricultural understanding.They both look a like.As they grow up the difference is when the head of the wheat becomes mature and the wind blows the wheat bows.But the tares don't bare anything because they don't have the bud on the head which represents Messiah.And when the wind blows the tares stand proud.