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"Cloven Tongues as of Fire"
newgene87:
that section of Acts is very confusing to me. I know this covers the concept of "speaking in tongues" but Ray clears that up. But WHAT WAS THIS that appears to the Disciples on the day of Pentecost???? This is an enigma to me.
"And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." (Acts 2:2-4) KJV
And suddenly there came out of heaven a blare, even as of a violent, carrying blast, and it fills the whole house where they were sitting." And seen by them were dividing tongues as if of fire, and one is seated on each one of them."And they are all filled with holy spirit, and they begin to speak in different languages, according as the spirit gave them to declaim." ~ Concordant
Did ray ever expound on this? I know he thoroughly covered the doctrine of "Tongues" or the gift of Languages, I understand that "tongues have pauo", meaning ceased, so no longer as it were in the New Testament church of the early Apostles - but what was that event? this verse could easily be misunderstood so i seeking some understanding on it. Thanks in advance
Eugene
Dave in Tenn:
I've heard a sermon or two on this trying to explain the symbolism, but I'm not going to repeat them from my lapsed memory. I will tell you what came to mind when reading the post:
Joh 4:46-48 So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death.
Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Joh 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; yet if not, believe Me because of the works themselves.
Peter 'explains' what was going in in general in his sermon in chaper 3.
That's probably no help, but there it is anyway.
Gina:
Forgive my long WINDED reply. he he See what I'm saying? ;)
Side bar: You know why they call Chicago the "windy city" don't you? On the surface it's because of how windy it is there -- literally. However, the running joke is the politicians are blowhards. But I digress...
If you got what Ray said about speaking in tongues, then you're basically there. The tongues they spoke in were known languages; the disciples were speaking languages they'd never spoken before so that they were understood by the others who heard them speak their language--and they [the ones that heard the disciples speak in their own language] were probably thinking something like, Now you're speaking my language!, Yeah, I heard that!, Now you're talkin!, Preach it sister, c'mon! WORD! You get that the disciples weren't speaking gibberish. Good.
Ray did not specially address these "divided / cloven tongues of fire." But if you want my 2 cents worth, notice how there came a "mighty wind" or "blast" that FILLS the house they were in and then.... FIRE?
Are you kidding me? What happened? Did the wind then suddenly leave the house so as not to extinguish the tongues of fire? Gimme a break. :)
There appeared to them...
As seen by them ...
I haven't checked a Strong's or any other study aid, but my educated guess would be to recall the time that Peter, James, and John saw Jesus with Moses and Elias. Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the VISION to no man,
Maybe you're way ahead of me, but I noticed how it says: "dividing tongues AS IF of fire," and "LIKE AS of fire,"
This was not literal fire no more than they were literal tongues.
Cloven means "cleft/split" or "two" and the word picture you get is that of a "hoof."
Were only "two" languages being spoken? I don't think so.
Why the reference to "cloven" or "split" and why is "hoof" the word picture the dictionary gives?
I wouldn't make an idol of the heart out of it.
Kat:
Hi Eugene,
Acts 2:3 And seen by them were dividing tongues as if of fire, and one is seated on each one of them. (CLV)
I think this was a great and miraculous sign unto the believers that showed them the coming of the Holy Spirit in a visible way. The way that Concordant has it is this was "dividing tongues as if of fire," so it seems that something that looked 'like' fire appeared and divided up and came to each of them and sat/rested on them. Now this "fire" should be understandable as God's Spirit, as John the Baptist spoke of it.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Heb 12:29 for our God is also a consuming fire.
The "tongues" I believe was also a miraculous sign for this event, in that they did exhibit more than just a visible sign, but the ability the speak other languages that they did not know as well.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
So I just look at this most profound occasion of the first coming of the Holy Spirit as being presented in a very spactacular way by God to those first believers as a witness to them and to us as well.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Rene:
--- Quote from: newgene87 on August 18, 2012, 08:36:53 PM ---
But WHAT WAS THIS that appears to the Disciples on the day of Pentecost????
--- End quote ---
Rotherham Emphasized Bible:
"and there appeared unto them parting asunder tongues, like as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them"
Hi Eugene,
I am not sure what this event actually looked like, but the main point is that this event was used as a mighty witness of the spirit of God upon His followers. As you read further down the 2nd chapter of Acts, Peter was given an opportunity to reveal many truths to the masses who witnessed the "speaking in tongues" by the Disciples. In 1 Corinthians, Paul also gave a second witness as to the purpose of "speaking in tongues."
1 Cor, 14:22 - "So that the tongues are for a sign, not unto them that believe, but unto them that believe not"
René
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