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[newgene87]

So, learning that all will eventually receive Salvation THROUGH Judgement, did Ray speak much on the coming kingdom revealed in Revelation 21-22? First of all, the coming Kingdom is going to be glorious. Even if we take these chapter literally (which we can't, I know) it would be beautiful regardless! But spiritually, it's beautiful as well. all will be cast into the lake of fire but what of those outside the gates of the city revealed in chapter 22:15??

Revelation 22:14-15
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For WITHOUT are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Did Ray speak on this if they will be able to come into the Kingdom? This comes after the Lake of Fire and the kingdom is established, but what of these people?

Eugene

[the truth]

Hello Eugene....your quote....Even if we take these chapter literally (which we can't, I know) it would be beautiful regardless!

Do you realize how many Scripture's you just ripped out of the bible? Are you saying the coming of the Lord is a Spiritual coming and NOT a physical?

I am sure that I am somehow misunderstanding what your saying... right?

[gregorydc]

I believe this is speaking about the kingdom that is here now in us. Because all of these people are around you now right!?  Just a thought
Greg

[newgene87]

Hello Eugene....your quote....Even if we take these chapter literally (which we can't, I know) it would be beautiful regardless!

Do you realize how many Scripture's you just ripped out of the bible? Are you saying the coming of the Lord is a Spiritual coming and NOT a physical?

I am sure that I am somehow misunderstanding what your saying... right?

In the words of our beloved Ray,

"The first eleven verses of Chapter one in Revelation are an introduction regarding where, how, and what John is going to record for us. Much of this introduction can be taken literally, however, not all. Beginning with verse twelve, we are confronted with one symbol after another for the remainder of the entire twenty-two-chapter-book.

Everything written in Revelation is true, but most is not literally true."

So yea you misunderstood me. I dont think the "literal foundations" are decked with those "literal precious stones". Basically Ray emphatically says the book of revelations is a book of symbols which demonstrate spiritual truths. So I just trying to stay faithful to the interpreting of it. Still, it's beautiful. But I can't see, like the "Wizard of Oz" - streets of gold. But they demonstrate something higher than that.

And good point gregorydc....I may be outside the kingdom then good thought tho

Eugene

[the truth]

Hey Eugene...Good Deal!

[Joel]

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Those are words I can hang my hat on. God is the Master at what he does making old things new.
Example, old Saul / new Paul.
I don't think man has ever seen a single drop as to what the future holds, and the glory that is to come.
More joy unspeakable and full of glory.

Joel

[Kat]

Hi Eugene,

So, learning that all will eventually receive Salvation THROUGH Judgement, did Ray speak much on the coming kingdom revealed in Revelation 21-22? First of all, the coming Kingdom is going to be glorious. Even if we take these chapter literally (which we can't, I know) it would be beautiful regardless! But spiritually, it's beautiful as well. all will be cast into the lake of fire but what of those outside the gates of the city revealed in chapter 22:15??

If you go back to chapter 21 you can see what the "city" is.

Rev 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 
v. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 

This "city" is New Jerusalem which is the bride of Christ, it is those in the first resurrection, the elect. In chapter 22:14 the "Tree of Life" is Jesus Christ, and the elect are the only ones who enter in the gates of His city, because they are the ones who do His commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 
v. 15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. 

So who are those outside of the gates of the city in verse 15? Everybody else besides the elect. If you are not an elect who is resurrected into the kingdom, the city New Jerusalem, then you are in the Lake of fire. The LoF is Christ and the elect who will be reigning on earth as New Jerusalem, not a literal city. Until a person has been lead to repentance, are purged and cleansed and learn to obey, they are still in their sins, whatever they are from murderers to liars, as it had spoke of back in 21:8.

Rev 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." 

Rev 21:27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

All have to go through the second death and come to know and obey Jesus Christ, few are now the great majority will in the Lof.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Gina]

Beautiful, Kat.  What you said reminds me of one of my favorite LOF articles, #12:

God Judges the World in a Pond

...Is not even the definition of this word and its root, comforting? And so even in this most solemn setting of God’s judgment there is a hint of safety and security.

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html

[Gina]

Ray comforts us even in his sleep. Thank God. 

[newgene87]

Beautiful Kat. That makes a lot of since. Sooo Is this when this verse comes to play?

1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?...

Will the elect judge those outside at this time? Just wondering.

Other than that, you all helped me a lot

Eugene

[Kat]

Hi Eugene,

1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?...

Will the elect judge those outside at this time? Just wondering.

Yes I believe that is what 1 Corinthians is speaking of. In Revelation 19 a passage speaks of Christ's return with His "armies" and they will rule this world with a "rod of iron." All that are raised up from the dead, with all manners of wickedness, will not be a threat to Christ, He will deal with them perfectly according to the degree needed for each and every one.

Rev 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 
12 His eyes [were] like a flame of fire, and on His head [were] many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 
13 He [was] clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 
16 And He has on [His] robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

These "armies" with Christ are all those who serve Christ and will uphold His will over those on the earth. The earth will be a safe place under Christ's rule and we can see how this will be a little bit in Micah.

Micah 4:1 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days [That] the mountain of the LORD's house Shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And peoples shall flow to it. 
2 Many nations shall come and say, "Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths." For out of Zion the law shall go forth, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 
3 He shall judge between many peoples, And rebuke strong nations afar off; They shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war anymore.
4 But everyone shall sit under his vine and under his fig tree, And no one shall make [them] afraid; For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken. 

mercy, peace and love
Kat