Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[dave]

Would this be a true statement?

"Christ's incarnation was his real death; that when he entered into this fallen state he entered into a condition of death, and was in that condition all the time he tabernacled in the flesh, i.e. from his birth to his resurrection. When I speak then of the "death of Christ" I do not mean his physical death on the cross but his real death while he was in this fallen state;......."

[dave]

Any reason behind the no?

[dave]

Any reason behind the no?

Yes

OK

[Deborah-Leigh]

 ~ Beautiful!

[indianabob]

So then it is apparent that Lord Jesus was never in a "fallen" state. O.K.
Indiana bob

[Kat]

Hi micah7:9,

This must be a spiritual concept of 'life' that you are asking about, but think about what you are asking... Christ is the only physical human being at that time that had LIFE.

John 6:57  As the living Father sent Me, and I LIVE because of the Father, so whoever feeds on Me, he also will live because of Me.

John 6:48  I am the Bread of LIFE.

John 6:51  I am the Living Bread which came down from Heaven. If anyone eats of this Bread, he shall live forever. And truly the bread that I will give is My flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 8:12  Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying, I am the Light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of LIFE.

If Christ did not have 'life,' what did He give up for this world?

John 10:15  Even as the Father knows Me, I also know the Father. And I lay down My LIFE for the sheep.

John 10:17  Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My LIFE so that I might take it again.

John 11:25  Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection and the LIFE! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live. (This was before His resurrection).

Acts 3:15  And you killed the Prince of Life, whom God has raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

John 14:6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE; no one comes to the Father but by Me.

That Jesus Christ is, was and will always be "the Way, the Truth, and the LIFE" is the very backbone of what we must believe to know Him!

Yes indianabob, I agree He was "made lower," never fallen.

Heb 2:9  But we see Him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[dave]

Just asking, but I understand ......John 6:48  I am the Bread of LIFE.

His LIFE was KINGDOM LIFE or am I wrong? He came "down" to life (chay) but he "lived" Kingdom Life, which no one was able to see.
Joh_14:9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Mat 8:26  And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

[Dennis Vogel]

Jesus was 100% human when He was born and died. He worked, went to the bathroom, got sick and hungry, and was tempted to sin, etc., just like us. There was no "kingdom life" when He was flesh.

He was alive before He became flesh and after His resurrection. And when He died, He was dead.

[cjwood]

Jesus was 100% human when He was born and died. He worked, went to the bathroom, got sick and hungry, and was tempted to sin, etc., just like us. There was no "kingdom life" when He was flesh.

He was alive before He became flesh and after His resurrection. And when He died, He was dead.

and THAT IS the TRUTH.

amen dennis, amen.
claudia

[dave]

Well then just how did he preform all that He did, if He was just like you and me at 100%?

[cjwood]

because although He was 100% human in His body, the Spirit of His Father was with Him continually in His heart.  continually.  constantly. 

claudia

[dave]

because although He was 100% human in His body, the Spirit of His Father was with Him continually in His heart.  continually.  constantly. 

claudia

That is the point, is it not, "the Spirit of His Father was with Him continually in His heart." So then Jesus was alive in His Kingdom, but dead, in His human walk. I do not understand the discomfort. If we are dead or dying from the fault of man in Gen. 3:6, then Jesus when he assumed this earthly body(flesh/dust), must have come to death.
Or am I misunderstanding the situation, man is, when born into this life, is dead and must be born again, of the spirit, to live or become alive, to life and that more abundantly.
I have received and accept Ray's teachings,(my strong hold) and as much as I love him for all he has given, questions arise, and now, I or we, cannot go to Ray for steerage or answers. But questions will arise, as this one. I am open to persuasion, I am yet a learning vessel, hungry....as well as we all should be, and I feel Ray knew he had only apart, and we are still working with the undone and unknown whole. Well, I said my part.

[octoberose]

Hi Micah,
 I appreciate your struggle because I think we all wrestle with the measure of faith we have been given.
 But I was wondering, where did this question come from? Is it something you were studying or the words of others, or what?
 I think for me the answer is in what Kat was telling you.
 I hope God gives the answers you seek.
 Patricia

[dave]

The quote I gave came from the writings of A.P.Adams his writings about 1875 on "Why Did Christ Die." I believe that his words are correct. I must. Thank you

[Deborah-Leigh]

Do you know The Way, to die?

The flesh body Jesus was born and died.

( Ref : teachings L Ray Smith) The flesh body Jesus, the "cadaver", is not Christ.  This is so for every one of us.

Jesus CHRIST, the Preeminent and only Son of God, is THE ONE who died properly! Yes properly.  Jesus, for all that He was, the Messiah the Son of God, gave back to God, Him Self, before he breathed his last breath. God made the best thing He ever made, manifested this in Jesus Christ for our sake, and then Jesus gave Him self back to God! Like thanks Dad, you made me fantastic, amazing, awesome and thanks for that yet here Dad, I am giving my self back to You and into Your hands I render my Spirit....and.... That's what to do. That's The Way. Jesus showed us how to DIE.

Death is a state of not knowing. Jesus knew all right! Jesus knew God. ~ and....

As He is, so are we, in this world. Yet who will believe this report? Who CAN believe this report? ONLY by Grace can one begin to even understand "this report"!

Many die in personal identification, to sin, missing the mark, of them selves believing that they are fit to meet God, their person to Spirit rendezvous, hoped for and believed in for a time after they have physically died! Yet the Scriptures say completely otherwise!  It is human to believe contrary, to "despise the Word of God." (L Ray Smith) and humans believe what they believe! LOL.  What arrogance is that! The arrogance of a door mouse is extremely funny if not seen from the door mouse's point of suffering agonising pain! LOL...Who can move God?

Jesus, GAVE BACK the Spirit of God, demonstrating, exhibiting and manifesting for the first time in the entire history of the human race, before and since, God inspired obedience, manifested willingness to give back His identity as the Son of God,  back to God! Jesus laid down His life, and identity and gave back His Spirit with whom He has his identity. Like, Okay Dad, please look here Dad, I’ve been this one Son of yours in this world who do not believe, and now it is time to dissolve this identity, lay it down, finish with it even though it is the highest most supreme identity any human can ever wear or experience, even so, thank you dear Father, you gave me that,  and yet even so, even this,  into your hands Father, I render my Spirit. Then...poof, gone  Can YOU DO THAT....Say to God, here Dad, here's my Spirit I am sending back to you and its a done deal? Can you do that?….to return again resurrected in full Glory! That’s how to die! That is how to do it properly!

Be the Son of God that you are, in the mortal frame, and then give THAT supreme no higher than that identity, give that back to GOD and keep on dying to self, all the way, reakoning your self dead, not reakoning Christ in you dead as CHRIST HIMSELF KNEW ALSO THAT GOD DOESN'T DIE! That is what is the sin-sacrifice. The savior of the world.

Excerpt from http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

Everything is ONE.  All heading for one goal, one destiny, one body, one God, one family.

I hope God will give me the ability to bring this off, as now we’re out there in a lot of different subjects.  Hopefully one day we’ll start bringing it all together, simplifying.

Partly what Jesus Christ was doing when He was revealing the Father, was letting them know who He was.  Before Abraham, “I Am” that was Me.  What?  Yes that was Me.  Not only was that Me, but here, Me, the Christ, the Savior, the Messiah in the flesh, this is the Father.  Everything that I say is the Father.  Everything that I do is the Father.  Then they started to understand it and believe it. 

That’s why Paul could say that there is one body, one spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God, one Father, of all, because he understood it, and they understood it too, at the end.  You can tell by their writing they were beginning to understand it. 

Peter makes an interesting statement.

2Peter 1:16  “For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.”
 
So they had a privilege we don’t have.  Remember what Christ said to Thomas.

John 20:29 “… Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

[Dennis Vogel]

Well then just how did he preform all that He did, if He was just like you and me at 100%?

For one thing, He had perfect faith. We are told over and over about our lack of faith.

And I did not say He was 100% "like" us.

[Kat]

Hi micah7:9,

That is the point, is it not, "the Spirit of His Father was with Him continually in His heart." So then Jesus was alive in His Kingdom, but dead, in His human walk. I do not understand the discomfort. If we are dead or dying from the fault of man in Gen. 3:6, then Jesus when he assumed this earthly body(flesh/dust), must have come to death.

No, Jesus Christ was the only human being that ever lived who was not 'dead' in the flesh, because He was not carnal.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace

All mankind that has ever lived are spiritually dead because of the sinful carnal flesh, accept One and only One, Jesus Christ, who never sinned.

Eph 2:1  And He has made you alive, who were once dead in trespasses and sins,
v. 2  in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience;
v. 3  among whom we also had our way of life in times past, in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
v. 4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us
v. 5  (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive together with Christ (by grace you are saved),
v. 6  and has raised us up together and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,
v. 7  so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

It is for the very reason that Christ was sinless/perfect/ that He could become our sacrifice/offering and through His physical death (He was never spiritually dead) that we could be reconciled.

2Co 5:21 For the One not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him.

Col 1:19  For in Him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
v. 20  and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of His cross.
v. 21  And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
v. 22  He has now reconciled in His body of flesh by His death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before Him,

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[dave]

Thank you all very much, I believe I re- got it