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[newgene87]

I will first quote Ray on Faith

[Comment from someone: Well I’ve heard you talk about, that they are trying to make it sound like it’s our faith and not Jesus Christ’s faith.]  That’s one thing and you do find that some translations talk about faith ‘in’ Christ, even Rotherham.  It’s plainly the faith ‘of’ Jesus Christ and he inserts the word ‘in’ (Gal. 2:16, 3:26; Php. 3:9; Col. 1:4).  I know that Rotherham’s translation is pretty consistent, just like Concordant.  But sometimes the human element gets in there and they just think, ‘it’s our faith in Christ.’  No it’s not, it’s the faith ‘of’ Christ.  Big difference.  That’s one point.


I am in agreement of this from Rays paper on faith and works. Faith is from God and of God -- but I'm still in the stage that in scripture I'm trying to put the pieces together whenever I come across faith. These next four verses are pretty much alike - and Jesus rewards people on their faith. Just as Ray said, "sometimes the human element gets in there and they just think, it's our faith in Christ" - well these verses causes me to stumble at that point

Mark 5:34
And He said to her, Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be whole from your plague.

Mark 10:52
And Jesus said to him, Go, your faith has healed you. And instantly he saw again, and followed Jesus in the highway.

Luke 17:19
And He said to him, “Stand up and go; your faith has made you well.”

Matthew 8:10
And hearing, Jesus marveled, and said to those following, Truly I say to you, Not even in Israel did I find such faith....And Jesus said to the centurion, Go, and as you have believed, so let it be to you. And his child was healed in that hour.

I really need help on this one: cause it's so easy for ME to throw in the human element that these people are coming and Jesus rewards them according to their "own" faith. Sad thing is, I heard this thought from someone else and that how they think they have free will and we must have faith "in" God. So I just need help family. How does this match up that Faith is OF God or OF Christ yet Jesus rewards these according to their own faith every time???

Humble for answers
Eugene

[Dave in Tenn]

It's His faith.  When He gives it to us, it becomes our faith too. 

(He doesn't loose His when this happens) 

To go a step or three further, it's HIS WHOLE UNIVERSE.  It's not just unscriptural but foolish to think we 'have' or 'are' anything at all without HIM...literally. 

[Gina]

Well, you have the relative and the absolute, neither of which the churched understand.

I think of it this way:  For who makes you to differ from another? and WHAT HAVE YOU THAT YOU DID NOT RECEIVE? now if you did receive it, why do you glory, as if you had not received it? ( 1 Cor 4:7 )

When people aren't miraculously healed, don't the faith healers/hucksters just love to throw in their faces that it is because they didn't have enough faith in the Lord?

This is the way I see it now: 

Jesus said, YOUR faith has healed you.  And that automatically means they pleased God because everybody knows that it is impossible to please God without faith.  (No DUH?)

But their faith?  In WHAT?  In God.  (Couldn't really call it "faith" if it were in anything other than God, now could you.  Nope.)

And how did they acquire their faith?  It was given them.

By whom?  When?  How?  By God, and I imagine when they witnessed and/or heard that Jesus performed miracles. 

Why were they given the ability to believe?  Because God wanted them to believe.

God makes vessels of honor and dishonor. 

God has mercy on Whom He wills.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that [FAITH] not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

[Gina]

It'd be the same thing if Jesus said to the starving multitudes he fed THROUGH  Peter and the other disciples with the loaves of bread and fish He got FROM the little boy:

Jesus to the multitudes:  Your bread and fish has filled your belly.   

It wasn't their bread or fish to begin with.  It was His from the start because the only reason that little boy had anything that Jesus could take and give to the disciples to feed the multitudes is because Jesus made this world and all that is in it to begin with.... It's simple.  All is of God.  Jesus just spoke to them from the relative standpoint, and I think it was to encourage them to continue on in THE faith, not simply to congratulate them, as if they made the choice to believe.  (They stood no chance in not believing as long as Jesus wanted them to believe. )

[newgene87]

Got it! Thank you so much. I heard this at a church as well, and that is what he was teaching - that "we make the choice to believe" - then I saw these verses, and yea, I stumbled but I got it now.

Am I right by saying, that since "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Rom 10:17), that these people heard the report of Jesus around the regions, and what He could do, that the Father "gave them that Faith", "drew (or drawed??..) them unto Christ", and Christ healed them? I think I got it I wanna make sure that I understand it correctly. Basically, the cause is still that the faith is of God and like you said Dave, it becomes our faith.

Eugene

[Marky Mark]

Eugene,I would have to ask you who is your Faith and is this same Faith based on a belief in what your Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ teaches through His Word? Jesus Christ is your Faith if He is doing His works in you,He is that reward of that Faith in us, when He drags us, to His Faithful truths.

We have to remember that the way God uses words in the bible are not meant to be clear to those whom He is 'not' calling out of the world in this age. Your Faith and your belief is your Savior,and not the faith of your self.

Peace...Mark

[Ian 155]

I think you have a point here Eugene,

If I give my child a gift , I was pleased to give my child something as a gift it therefore belongs to the child, same applies to salvation,revelation,wisdom all part of the kingdom which God is pleased to give us or I speak as a fool This is however is not from you but from God

[newgene87]

Eugene,I would have to ask you who is your Faith and is this same Faith based on a belief in what your Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ teaches through His Word? Jesus Christ is your Faith if He is doing His works in you,He is that reward of that Faith in us, when He drags us, to His Faithful truths.

We have to remember that the way God uses words in the bible are not meant to be clear to those whom He is 'not' calling out of the world in this age. Your Faith and your belief is your Savior,and not the faith of your self.

Peace...Mark

Great response Mark. Can you help me connect this with those verses I presented? Seems this response goes off a little. I mean, I will agree and confess that my Faith (or belief) IS Jesus As my Lord and my God. I am aware of his hand on my entire life from depression, sadness, confusion, when I denied him, to happiness, joy leading to now - I'm aware of his working leading me to the Faith I have now. The "fire" of those tribulations produced all the good qualities in me now, and yes I acknowledge that Fire was, still is, and will always Be GOD. But to the verses in these texts - how does it connect? I'm trying to be solid on this understanding so I can be able to speak the truth of it to someone else. But great response.

[newgene87]

I think you have a point here Eugene,

If I give my child a gift , I was pleased to give my child something as a gift it therefore belongs to the child, same applies to salvation,revelation,wisdom all part of the kingdom which God is pleased to give us or I speak as a fool This is however is not from you but from God

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh and that light flashes on. GOT IT. Like Gina pointed out from 1 Corithians - EVERYTHING we have we received from God and since Faith IS A GIFT from God - its ours. So there's no room for boasting like its OURS AND OF US. Thank you Ian 155. That helped a lot.

Eugene

[Dave in Tenn]

Heb 11:1 Now faith is an assumption of what is being expected, a conviction concerning matters which are not being observed.

If you can 'insert' that most scriptural of definitions you'll be ok.

Study and meditate on Hebrews 11.  (And concerning that chapter, I'm at a loss to see why some think of it as 'bad news', but that's for another discussion, maybe).

It was Ray who said it is God's faith.  It's ours when He gives it to us.  I was just too lazy/busy to search for the quote.   

Even the Lord Jesus lived by faith, and died in faith...the assumption of His expected resurrection, a conviction concerning His death and resurrection that were not being 'observed' during the time he 'faithed/believed' and prophecied it.

It's HIS faith that the whole world will be saved, expressed in His word and in His coming.  Now it's ours.

[Kat]

Just to add a bit more on this.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5417.0.html -------

There is one other aspect to this thing of grace.  We saw it a little bit in Hebrews 3:12 that says, “… an evil heart of unbelief…”  Now you all understand that in the Bible when it talks about believe, that’s the verb.  Faith is the noun.  Faith and believe are the same Greek word, they’re the same.  What is faith?  It means to believe.  If you believe, you have what?  Faith.  They are both the same word, one is a noun, one is a verb, that’s the only difference.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well I look at it like, God gives us faith and when we internalize that faith in our mind, then it brings about belief within us. We believe in, whatever, because God gave us the faith to.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[newgene87]

Thank you Kat: and thank you again Dave. I will go proceed on my journey of Faith . If its MY Faith that I have peace and love - I truly glorify God for giving me this Faith. It was surely ALL the "various fiery trials" that proved the Faith he gave me. I truly thank Him for everything - the good and evil. Thank you all for clearing this up for me

Eugene

[Marky Mark]

Here is how it connects. We are healed and made well when we have hope,assurance and belief in His words.By believing on Him...we have His Faith.

Faith is the belief in the invisible things of God. It is an assurance intended to give us the confidence to see beyond our natural comprehension.When we have not seen physically,but do see spiritually,we are in that process of His blessings,healings and joy.

Heb 11:1  Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

Heb 11:6  and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.

Joh 20:29  Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

1Pe 1:8  Him you love, though your eyes have never looked on Him. In Him, though at present you cannot see Him, you nevertheless trust, and triumph with a joy which is unspeakable and is crowned with glory,

Hope that helps.

Peace...Mark

[newgene87]

Helps even more. Bless you all

[cjwood]

1Pe 1:8  Him you love, though your eyes have never looked on Him. In Him, though at present you cannot see Him, you nevertheless trust, and triumph with a joy which is unspeakable and is crowned with glory,

mark, thank you so much for flowing with the Spirit and posting this verse!  it thrilled my soul to read it.  what an awesome Scripture.

claudia

[santgem]

Dear Matthew,

Thank you for your e-mail and your comments.

I am so pleased that my site has helped you in your search for the true God!

Yes, Matthew, we are "saved in grace through FAITH..." (Eph. 2:, but even THAT FAITH is not our own until God GIVES IT TO US! Notice Rom. 12:4, "God IMPARTS to each the measure of FAITH." AFTER God gives us HIS faith, then it becomes OURS! Pretty simple, huh?

May God be with you, Matthew.

Sincerely,  Ray

[Marky Mark]

mark, thank you so much for flowing with the Spirit and posting this verse!  it thrilled my soul to read it.  what an awesome Scripture.

claudia

You are very welcome claudia,and awesome it is.

Peace...Mark

[cris.santiago]

Eugene,

That's a great question.  And one I'm sure we may have all tried to find the answer to at one time or another.

So our faith or God's faith?

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:- Ephesians 2:8(KJV)

So we are saved by grace through faith.  But it is not of ourselves?  Let me ask you something:  if this faith is ours, then is it really a gift from God?  Of course not!

Faith is an essential part of our salvation (we are being saved(it is a process), for we are saved by grace through faith.  Since this faith is an essential part of our salvation, then we know faith is most definitely a good thing.  A very important thing!

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. - James 1:17(KJV)

Every good things comes from above, it comes from God.  Faith too, comes from God. 

Here's a verse you might be familiar with:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20(KJV)

Notice it says, "I live by the faith OF the Son of God..."  Not Paul's OWN faith, but the faith of Christ. 

After we are given faith, which is a gift from God, it becomes ours. 

Here's a verse on faith to meditate on:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. - Hebrews 11:6(KJV)

Hope this helps.  Great question, Eugene.  I thank God that He has given you a spirit of curiosity to seek the counsel of your brothers and sisters on this topic.

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. - Proverbs 12:15


Your brother in running the race of faith,
Cris

[newgene87]

Eugene,

That's a great question.  And one I'm sure we may have all tried to find the answer to at one time or another.

So our faith or God's faith?

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:- Ephesians 2:8(KJV)

So we are saved by grace through faith.  But it is not of ourselves?  Let me ask you something:  if this faith is ours, then is it really a gift from God?  Of course not!

Faith is an essential part of our salvation (we are being saved(it is a process), for we are saved by grace through faith.  Since this faith is an essential part of our salvation, then we know faith is most definitely a good thing.  A very important thing!

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. - James 1:17(KJV)

Every good things comes from above, it comes from God.  Faith too, comes from God. 

Here's a verse you might be familiar with:

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20(KJV)

Notice it says, "I live by the faith OF the Son of God..."  Not Paul's OWN faith, but the faith of Christ. 

After we are given faith, which is a gift from God, it becomes ours. 

Here's a verse on faith to meditate on:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. - Hebrews 11:6(KJV)

Hope this helps.  Great question, Eugene.  I thank God that He has given you a spirit of curiosity to seek the counsel of your brothers and sisters on this topic.

The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise. - Proverbs 12:15


Your brother in running the race of faith,
Cris

I guess my title can be misleading. With the general question, I understand completely. I was slightly confused on Jesus example of rewarding people by saying "your faith" has saved you or made you whole. But thanks for the reminders. My question was regarding those verses that's all. But I got it now. Thanks again

Eugene

[cris.santiago]

Yeah, no problem.  I see what your saying now, so forgive me for misunderstanding the question before haha.  Nonetheless, great question!

Cris