> General Discussions
Kingdom of the heavens suffers violence"
Marky Mark:
--- Quote ---What is the meaning of the kingdom in connection with violence? And men "pressing into it"??
--- End quote ---
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence[G971], and the violent[G973 from G971] take it by force.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth[G971] into it.
Hi Eugene.
First and foremost,when Scripture can define the meaning of a word or words from within Scripture itself,I always use that meaning of said words to define what is being said,matching Spiritual with Spiritual.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
The Spiritual interpretation of the words in Scripture themselves should always take precedence, meaning,how does the word in the verses being read relate to how that same word is used elsewhere in Scripture. After all,God is not the author of confusion.
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace...
When I'm not understanding a word or words in Scripture, I always go to esword and do a word search/study to see how said word/words were used in their literal meanings,I then ask God to show me how those words should be interpreted in connection with their Spiritual meaning,after all, is not His words Spirit?. It takes some work, but with the help of the Spirit,the outcome is well worth it.
Joh 6:63...the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
I think from the following you should be able to see what the intended usage of the words in question mean...
From Strong's concordance:
G971
βιάζω
biazō
bee-ad'-zo
From G970; to force, that is, (reflexively) to crowd oneself (into), or (passively) to be seized: - press, suffer violence.
From King James concordance:
G971
βιάζω
biazō
Total KJV Occurrences: 3
presseth, 1
Luk_16:16
suffereth, 1
Mat_11:12
violence, 1
Mat_11:12 (2)
Hope this helps some.
Peace...Mark
John from Kentucky:
I wonder if we don't over think some things and make them more complex than needed ? Paul spoke of the simplicity in Christ.
In Matt 11:2, John is in prison. Herod arresting John and throwing him in prison (later chopping off his head) is a violent act.
In Matt 11:12, Jesus is commenting upon the violent aspect of John's arrest.
newgene87:
Thanks to everyone for their input. Ian, thanks for the "parable" like experience you shared ;), I'm knocking on the spiritual connection there. Thank you kat and Gina. I will use those scriptures to pray and grow in this enigma. And thanks Mark for the reminder. you went over every spiritual step I cover in my head. Ray teaches me that in just about every paper I read. With EVERY verse of scripture I go through the steps in the "12 Truths" and the foundational truths - always upholding Christ words are spiritual. I have an companion bible with commentaries and word studies, a strongs concordance, Esword, olivetree -- I have the tools but nothing beats the wisdom I get from here on things I may miss. Im a fervent student of the scriptures, i study everyday (literally) but there are things that i will miss and this site is that gap. And ill continue to pray on it. Kat I believe you uncovered something I was missing. I just don't see how the "KINGDOM" is suffering violence - I would understand if he said the "church" suffers violence. I wil look deeper and continue to "match spiritual with spiritual".
Eugene
newgene87:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 31, 2012, 12:14:06 PM ---I wonder if don't over think some things and make them more complex than needed ? Paul spoke of the simplicity in Christ.
In Matt 11:2, John is in prison. Herod arresting John and throwing him in prison (later chopping off his head) is a violent act.
In Matt 11:12, Jesus is commenting upon the violent aspect of John's arrest.
--- End quote ---
Thanks John. I will look into that. But if there was this such simplicity why is "The Rich Man and Lazarus" parable have such an LENGTHY explaination??? And Jesus repeated, he that has ears to hear, let him hear....wouldn't that take some effort to grasp things? And Jesus spoke in ways that no one would understand - and we live in a time where translations, church heresies, and false doctrines have covered the "simplicity" in Christ.... And wondering, how is "violent men taking it(the kingdom of the heavens) BY FORCE??". I will continue to seek and ask :)
Eugene
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: newgene87 on August 31, 2012, 12:38:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on August 31, 2012, 12:14:06 PM ---I wonder if don't over think some things and make them more complex than needed ? Paul spoke of the simplicity in Christ.
In Matt 11:2, John is in prison. Herod arresting John and throwing him in prison (later chopping off his head) is a violent act.
In Matt 11:12, Jesus is commenting upon the violent aspect of John's arrest.
--- End quote ---
Thanks John. I will look into that. But if there was this such simplicity why is "The Rich Man and Lazarus" parable have such an LENGTHY explaination??? And Jesus repeated, he that has ears to hear, let him hear....wouldn't that take some effort to grasp things? And Jesus spoke in ways that no one would understand - and we live in a time where translations, church heresies, and false doctrines have covered the "simplicity" in Christ.... And wondering, how is "violent men taking it(the kingdom of the heavens) BY FORCE??". I will continue to seek and ask :)
Eugene
--- End quote ---
The most important thing in understanding scripture is the Spirit of God. Not concordances, translations, or human explanation.
Wasn't Ray's article on Lazarus and the Rich Man easy to understand? It was very easy if God's Spirit guided ones reading and understanding.
"...Not by might nor by power , but by my Spirit says the LORD Almighty." Zech. 4:6
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