In The Day Of The Great Slaughter

[G. Driggs]

Just reread that paper today and it struck a different cord with me this time. Lately I've been pretty down about the current condition of the world and especially of my own sinful condition. Then after reading the whole article carefully I came across this quote from Ray.

Make no mistake about it: There will be hell to pay in the years ahead. Our sins have reached to high heaven, and our leaders fiddle while our great spiritual leaders "speak unto us SMOOTH things and prophesy DECEIT" in our darkest hours and in our greatest need to repent and turn to God. I don't apologize for how that sounds to many of you, but not to all, I hope.

Have you ever wanted to just take charge of some evil, some oppression, some inequality, some rotten situation in our nation, but just lacked the opportunity and power to do anything about it? Well God is offering some the grand and glorious opportunity to reign and serve with HIM in HIS glory, wisdom, and power.

    "And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, TO HIM WILL I GIVE POWER OVER THE NATIONS... To him that overcomes will I grant TO SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, even as I also overcame and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 2:26 & 3:21).

As we have seen in Jeremiah, God will punish ALL NATIONS, but the Christian Nations will be the first to fall.  First God punishes His people, and then He punishes those He used as a club in His hand to punish His people. Few will take this warning seriously—what about YOU?  http://bible-truths.com/towers.htm

I don't every remember seeing those verses from Revelation defined that way. And what I got out of it is instead of being so down about it all I should have hope for something to look forward to. Some great day God willing we will have power of the nations to influence them for good, to change what is wrong with the world. I mean how awesome is that?

I dunno, what do you all think? Just wanted to share a little revelation from the book of Revelation as taught by Jesus through Ray, something I had never seen before. Just gives me hope and a bit of strength to try a little harder to change myself (through grace) so someday maybe I can be a part of changing the world. Kinda like that saying that goes, "if your not part of the solution then your part of the problem". Of course it seems I needed to be part of the problem before Jesus can make me part of the solution. 

It's just been a little tough lately. Its so easy to get down about the world and ourselves. Hopefully this is just the refocus I need at this time, and maybe give hope to someone else? Thanks for listening.

Peace

[Gina]

Of course.  I was reading that today as well:

    "And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, TO HIM WILL I GIVE POWER OVER THE NATIONS... To him that overcomes will I grant TO SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, even as I also overcame and am set down with My Father in His throne" (Rev. 2:26 & 3:21).

Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.  (Rom 8:30)

John 17

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 

Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords, but He taught us to never "lord" it over anyone. 

Overcomers don't feel the need, desire, or compulsion to lord it over anyone.  But they do feel the need to heal and set things right that God may be glorified (who is just and good and gentle and merciful and gracious and a BIG gift giver, , in addition to all His other characteristics)

God humbles those who exalt themselves, but He exalts ["lifts high"] those who humble themselves so that God may be All in All.

This couldn't have been a more timely post.  Thanks to the Most High God.

[Dave in Tenn]

Rom 8:18  I am of the opinion that there is no comparison between the pain of this present time and the glory which we will see in the future.
Rom 8:19  For the strong desire of every living thing is waiting for the revelation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20  For every living thing was put under the power of change, not by its desire, but by him who made it so, in hope
Rom 8:21  That all living things will be made free from the power of death and will have a part with the free children of God in glory.
Rom 8:22  For we are conscious that all living things are weeping and sorrowing in pain together till now.
Rom 8:23  And not only so, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit, even we have sorrow in our minds, waiting for the time when we will take our place as sons, that is, the salvation of our bodies.

Kinda makes you pity the world to believe that.  Kinda makes you not prone to blame the world.  Kinda makes you want to to minister freedom and hope to the world, even if the world turns on you.  They aren't "strongly desiring" the appearance of religious folks bringing bondage and fear.  They are weeping and sorrowing in pain in no small part BECAUSE of all that.  I hope we're concious, and that we believe all living things will have a part with the free children of God in glory.   

[onelovedread]

Guys, seems to me to be a crap shoot:

From The Myth of Free-Will Exposed
http://bible-truths.com/lake15-B.html


Ray teaches:

"....The subject is can a man make a choice to obey God with his natural mind?

And time and again I have shown you that God says in His Word that the natural, unaided mind of man cannot "will" and choose to do good.

The Scriptures have already concluded that man's will is not free to do that which it cannot do. Yet should God intervene and cause this same person to repent and turn to God in obedience, how can this same person take credit for repenting and turning to God, seeing that it was ALL OF GOD? Yes, the human mind and will can will and can choose to obey God, but only when God causes it to do so."

[Gina]

Hey John -- What do you mean by a crap shoot?

[onelovedread]

 something that has an unpredictable outcome like a gambling game played with two dice;


Only God controls the outcome as He is the one who has established the "cause".
We can not make an "uncaused" decision.
Only He can change the condition of the world or of man's hearts. 
You or I could have been Pharaoh or Judas or Hitler, but for the grace of God.

[Gina]

Of course. 

From Twelve God-Given Truths:

Truth #8 'The OT scriptures are our admonition, example, learning'


    [A] "Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION [to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty, etc.], upon whom the ends of the world ['eons—ages'] are come" (I Cor. 10:11).

    [ B ] "Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted" (I Cor. 10:6).

    [C] "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for OUR LEARNING..." (Rom. 15:4).

Two excerpts from Ray in this section:

It is essential that we study the Old Testament Scriptures, for they are often the only key to the New Testament Scriptures.

If you cannot identify yourself, personally, with all the stories and accounts in the Old Testament, then you have not even begun to overcome all the carnality that you are.


Paul, Peter, and the rest of the apostles taught the salvation of all from the OT Scriptures. Paul understood that the events from the OT were an 'allegory' which forshadowed spiritual truths [Gal 4:22-26].

We all are found in the OT as we all have the same human flaws. While a man of today may not receive strength from his hair as did Samson [Judges 13:5], many men of today have had their lust of a woman be their downfall as did Samson. The root of our sins is the same as for the Israelites throughout the OT as well as all humans throughout God's creation.

( forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=12517.0 )

[G. Driggs]

Overcomers don't feel the need, desire, or compulsion to lord it over anyone.  But they do feel the need to heal and set things right that God may be glorified (who is just and good and gentle and merciful and gracious and a BIG gift giver, , in addition to all His other characteristics)

Excellent point Gina, and thank you for responding.

Kinda makes you pity the world to believe that.  Kinda makes you not prone to blame the world.  Kinda makes you want to to minister freedom and hope to the world, even if the world turns on you.  They aren't "strongly desiring" the appearance of religious folks bringing bondage and fear.  They are weeping and sorrowing in pain in no small part BECAUSE of all that.  I hope we're concious, and that we believe all living things will have a part with the free children of God in glory.   

Couldn't agree more with you there Dave. It's so easy to blame others and ask what the heck is wrong with me and everyone? I often have to take a step back and be reminded that all is of God and He has a perfect plan through it all.

something that has an unpredictable outcome like a gambling game played with two dice;


Only God controls the outcome as He is the one who has established the "cause".
We can not make an "uncaused" decision.
Only He can change the condition of the world or of man's hearts.
You or I could have been Pharaoh or Judas or Hitler, but for the grace of God.

Spiritually speaking we are very much like Pharaoh, Judas and Hitler if you think about it. Humanity is hard headed, vain, betrayers and murderers. We are who we are not by chance but by the grace of God like you said.

Ive often asked God "why me ? Why did you choose me to experience the evils that I have?" Not sure I have the answer yet, but God in His infinite wisdom wanted it this way for me. And that hurts a lot to be honest. I've been dealing with a lot of bitterness toward God about it and it just breaks my heart. It hurts so bad. Im not trying to make it seem like I have the worst problems in the whole world, but it is MY experience of evil made just for me. Maybe so I can help those who have went through the same things? I dunno yet. This is of course if God saves me at this time.

Thanks all for responding and listening.

Of course.

From Twelve God-Given Truths:

Truth #8 'The OT scriptures are our admonition, example, learning'


    [A] "Now ALL these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for OUR ADMONITION [to reprove, caution, warn, remind of obligation or duty, etc.], upon whom the ends of the world ['eons—ages'] are come" (I Cor. 10:11).

    [ B ] "Now these things were OUR EXAMPLES, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted" (I Cor. 10:6).

    [C] "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for OUR LEARNING..." (Rom. 15:4).

Two excerpts from Ray in this section:

It is essential that we study the Old Testament Scriptures, for they are often the only key to the New Testament Scriptures.

If you cannot identify yourself, personally, with all the stories and accounts in the Old Testament, then you have not even begun to overcome all the carnality that you are.


Paul, Peter, and the rest of the apostles taught the salvation of all from the OT Scriptures. Paul understood that the events from the OT were an 'allegory' which forshadowed spiritual truths [Gal 4:22-26].

We all are found in the OT as we all have the same human flaws. While a man of today may not receive strength from his hair as did Samson [Judges 13:5], many men of today have had their lust of a woman be their downfall as did Samson. The root of our sins is the same as for the Israelites throughout the OT as well as all humans throughout God's creation.

( forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=12517.0 )

Thank you very much Gina for the reminder. You posted this as I was posting mine.

Peace

[Gina]

You're welcome.   (Sorry about posting so much on your thread--it's just a good one!)

I've been dealing with a lot of bitterness toward God about it and it just breaks my heart. It hurts so bad. Im not trying to make it seem like I have the worst problems in the whole world, but it is MY experience of evil made just for me. Maybe so I can help those who have went through the same things? I dunno yet. This is of course if God saves me at this time.

That bitterness toward God is something we'll all experience; life's "bizarre" as Ray said once in a conference.  It will pass; this too shall pass.  We'll get to the place where we actually believe God and are not afraid but at "bitter times", it's hard to imagine ever feeling better.

This verse is a hard saying:   The just shall live by faith. 

Welllll guess what?  I desire to see things with my own eyeballs -- not with my mind, not in a "dream" or "vision" in some sort of "hopeful" way, so I guess I'm just gonna have to believe that verse by the faith OF Jesus Christ.   

There are times when our faith is tested, and then we remember -- we aren't saved by OUR faith, but by Jesus Christ's. 

God bless and I'm sure all of us here are praying for you to be strengthened.   

Before I go, check out this witness to your original post!

'Happy the poor in spirit -- because theirs is the reign of the heavens.'  (Matthew 5:3) [Dont you love the way they translated that verse?  I do.]

[Ian 155]

Welllll guess what?  I desire to see things with my own eyeballs -- not with my mind, not in a "dream" or "vision" in some sort of "hopeful" way, so I guess I'm just gonna have to believe that verse by the faith OF Jesus Christ.   

[Shawn Fainn]

Just re-read this article again this morning. With the anniversary of 9/11 attacks i thought i'd refresh myself on the prophesy. Wow.. I can't believe i missed so much the first time. I do remember it being one of the first articles I read on bible-truths a few years ago. I guess after soaking myself in all the wisdom Ray has shared with us over the years really built a stronger foundation, so i was able to 'see' things much more clearly this time and gain a much deeper understanding. Especially concerning 'spiritual Israel', etc. From a political/foreign policy standpoint, it's a bit frustrating how we (United States) are still sending financial aid to countries (Egypt) that hate us

[gregorydc]

I dunno, what do you all think? Just wanted to share a little revelation from the book of Revelation as taught by Jesus through Ray, something I had never seen before. Just gives me hope and a bit of strength to try a little harder to change myself (through grace) so someday maybe I can be a part of changing the world. Kinda like that saying that goes, "if your not part of the solution then your part of the problem". Of course it seems I needed to be part of the problem before Jesus can make me part of the solution.

Hey G
Ray taught on these subjects too. He said (paraphrasing here) keep believing in your mind and these things ("change the world") will happen for you because that is what God is training us for to judge and change the world for the better.  Hopefully someone will show you the link to this.
Greg