Kingdom of the heavens suffers violence"

[Gina]

I really like this thread.   (Continuing...)

throng: mob, pack, pile, jam:  press tightly together or cram
jostle, jostling:  the act of jostling (forcing your way by pushing)

Mark 5:24

And Jesus went with him; and many people followed him, and thronged him.


So Jesus went with him. A huge crowd kept following him and jostling him .

Jesus went with the man. A huge crowd followed Jesus and pressed him on every side .


2 Cor. 7:5 For, when we were come into Macedonia, our body had no rest, but we were troubled on every side; without were fightings, within were fears.


2 Cor. 4

8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;


Eph 6:12: For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

[ez2u]

well a lot of people are expressing their opinion on this interesting subject  which is funny because i was thinking about this very scripture today and though of posting a question. change from glory to glory is very hard and seems at times violent  not in a physical way but in the mind.

[darren]

Are not God's Chosen the heavens? Is not God's elect the Kingdom? Yes, A great man and teacher said WE are the Kingdom of heaven.  Yes from Jesus time till the present times the Kingdom of the heavens suffers violence.  Man what a scripture. Truer words never been spoken. Simple enough??

Darren
P.S. Who was this great man and teacher??

[Gina]

L. Ray Smith.

[Rene]

L. Ray Smith.

Yes, Ray was a gifted teacher, but please let's give praise and glory of greatness to only one, our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus.

Rene'

[Gina]

Aw man, Rene, I thank God every day for Ray.  Every day I think about Ray and Bible-truths.com and Dennis and all of you all and I thank God and I know that the only reason I can smile half as much as I am able is because of that.  No, I'll never forget that it was God Who deserves the praise for raising up L. Ray Smith.

And how do I praise God and give Him the glory?  I try to learn and obey the teachings of God as L. Ray Smith taught me.

I personally believe God is not the least bit offended that we love Ray as much as we do.  I didn't love or respect him nearly enough when he was alive.  And it was because people kept coming up to me going -- He's just a man, he's just a man, he's just a man...  I'm aware that Ray was just a man.  He was a very special man and without God leading me to him, I'd be probably still in church. 

[newgene87]

L. Ray Smith.

Yes, Ray was a gifted teacher, but please let's give praise and glory of greatness to only one, our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus.

Rene'

Tis true. Unless he's the ONLY person that teach these truths....Jesus is still my Great Teacher. I'm thankful for this VITAL step in my walk but as of lately God reveals SO much more

[Gina]

And moreover, Jesus said that whoever wants to be greatest in the Kingdom of heavens must be servant of all.  I think that Ray was the greatest servant I've ever seen.  He served and served and served.  He never stopped serving us.  He served us till the day he died and then he stored up things for us to keep on in our walk.  He truly walked the talk. 

I believe that God is pleased that we are cognizant of Ray's obedience to Him.

Hebrews 13:7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

1 Peter 2:12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

1 Thessalonians 2:4 On the contrary, we speak as men approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel. We are not trying to please men but God, who tests our hearts.

2 Corinthians 2:17 Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.

Luke 10:16 "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 13:20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

Matthew 10:40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

Gal 4:14 And my trial which was in my flesh you despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Ray was not looking for praise, which is why I rarely praised him when he was alive.  I rarely wrote him and told him how much his material meant to me after I first came to the site because I was torn and tossed to and fro between trying to please people who kept saying he was "just a man" and between obeying and respecting him as someone who was sent by God.  But I'm done kicking myself for that.

And I'm gonna shut up about that now.  Thanks for listening tho.

[John from Kentucky]

L. Ray Smith.

Yes, Ray was a gifted teacher, but please let's give praise and glory of greatness to only one, our Lord and Saviour Christ Jesus.

Rene'

Hey Rene',

Right on, Right on, Right on.  Go girl.  You said the truth!  We have only One Master and Commander and Teacher.  All praise and glory only to Him.

Like Ray, I don't fully understand the scriptural teaching on women teaching.  But, if Jesus ever asks me, I'm going to suggest that He give you a preacher's license.   

John

[Gina]

All praise and all glory ONLY to Him?  You mean I need to line through these verses of scripture?


(James 1:12) Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, HE will receive the CROWN of life that God has promised to those who love him.

(1 Peter 5:4) And when the chief Shepherd shall be manifested, YE shall receive the CROWN OF GLORY that fadeth not away.

(1 Thes 2:19)  For what is our hope or joy or CROWN OF BOASTING BEFORE OUR LORD JESUS at his coming? Is it not YOU?

That you would walk worthy of God, who has called you unto his kingdom and GLORY. (1 Thessalonians 2:12)

(2 Corinthians 4:6) For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in OUR hearts to give US the light of the knowledge of the GLORY of God in the face of Christ.

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, so that we may be also GLORIFIED together. (Romans 8:17)


(2 Cor. 1:14)  as also ye did acknowledge us in part, that are YOUR GLORYING, even as ye also are ours, in the day of our Lord Jesus.


(Phil. 1:26)   that YOUR GLORYING may abound in Christ Jesus IN ME through my presence with you again.

( 1 Thes. 2:20 ) Indeed, YOU are our GLORY and joy.




Am I not supposed to boast of another?  Is that sin?    Let's see here....


Prov. 12:8  A MAN IS PRAISED according to his wisdom, but men with warped minds are despised.  (You can say that again!)

For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I BOAST of YOU to THEM of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and YOUR ZEAL has PROVOKED VERY MANY.  (2 Cor. 9:2)

2 Cor.  7:14  I had BOASTED to him ABOUT YOU, and you have not embarrassed me. But just as everything we said to you was true, so our BOASTING ABOUT YOU to Titus has proved to be true as well.

(2 Cor. 5:12)  We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take PRIDE IN US, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart.





Would a married woman do well to rethink their role as the wife to their beloved?  Should she not be looking at her husband as any kind of "lord"?   Well, what do we have here:


(1 Peter 3:6) like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and CALLED HIM HER MASTER. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.


(1 Corinthians 16:18) For they refreshed my spirit and yours also. SUCH MEN DESERVE RECOGNITION.

Ray loved God a LOT.  "... and I love the scriptures."    ~from Ray's letter to Hagee/Kennedy.


(John 15:13)  GREATER love than this hath no one, that any one his life may lay down for his friends;


Ray laid down his life for us -- well, he did for me and a few others.   

His bible-truths cards that he gave me to hand out say:  Unlike any other site on the internet."

Even Ray knew he has something pretty special and wasn't ashamed to admit it.  I believe it too.

God bless everyone and thanks for hearing me out.

[darren]

I know it's a matter of opion. In my opion L. Ray Smith was  a great man and a great teacher. Does that mean I am comparing Ray to Jesus Christ Lord and Saviour of all humankind?? Really, Throughout history we had great men  and women who were great teachers and yet I do not pray, worship or give glory on high to these people. There's only The Father and His Son. WOW!! Let them who have eyes see, and ears, hear.....

Darren
P.S Good job Gina

[Rene]

All praise and all glory ONLY to Him?

Absolutely!  Ray is dead, Jesus is alive.  Whatever spiritual gifts Ray had,they came from God.  He and only He is worthy of our worship and praise.

Rene'

[Gina]

Rene, I will not force you to believe what I believe.  I've laid out all that scripture and I was only getting warmed up.  But in ending I will say this:  Neither you, nor JFK, nor Eugene have given one scripture as backup for what you espouse -- not one. 

I will continue to thank God for Ray--who has not disappointed me in the least.  Ray at this very moment is simply reposing and when God wakes him up someone's going to be kissing his feet:

   Revelation 3:9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Isaiah 60

1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

6 The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD.

7 All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.

8 Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

9 Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee.

10 And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee.

11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted.

13 The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

14 The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

[John from Kentucky]

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another... Isa 42:8

...that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to Whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever.  Amen.  1Peter 4:11

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ; to Whom be glory for ever and ever.  Amen.  Hebrews 13:20-21

[newgene87]

Well with that said

2 Corinthians 5:16
"Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer."

1 Corinthians 3:3
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

And definitely after learning the "carnal" fall out between Ray and another Teacher who teaches these SAME truths -- Ray, could acknowledge He was "yet carnal". WE can be "yet carnal" even if we're still regarding Jesus when He was on this earth as a man in flesh. It's "Carnal" until we acknowledge Christ, in Spirit as the Consummation and goal of Truth - we should move beyond the milk of Ray, milk of the word, "letters" and on to the meat of the word, the spirit that gives life, and the truth we abide in. I Glorify God and thank God ONLY (now) for the teachings from Ray - but we would still be Carnal if We give this "Man" more Praise than due

...just so much as the builder of a house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God." (Hebrews 3:3-4)

Ray's "House" was beneficial for its time - but it was Jesus that gave US the understanding that Ray taught. It still points to Jesus. We should regard no one according to the flesh an once we mature to that state of mind - it leads and points to Christ - NO MAN. Great Teacher, bashed the theologians of today a little too much, but He nailed his ideas by Christ. And WE understood BY Christ, not by Ray.

May We all be aware of our carnality. Not Even regarding the cross, his miracles, his healings -- they were all for "the flesh" to see and eventually "the spirit" to grasp.

And I can GUARANTEE, no one - and I mean no one will be kissing Rays feet upon Resurrection. This All points "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" - ONLY to Jesus.

[Craig]

This thread has run its course. I'm sure nobody here would ever put Ray over Jesus Christ. And everyone understands that is only by the Grace of God and Christ that we found the teaching at bibletruths and had our eyes opened. And only by God's grace did He use Ray to be a teacher. Ray was a man, warts and all, Christ is God, there is no equal.

It is also fine for folks to be thankful to Ray for giving so much of his life and time to teaching us God's word.  I am very thankful for that and would give praise to Ray for giving of himself so much.

I can appreciate those of you who are thankful and want to stress the Christ is prize and only through him is all things possible, that is true. I can also appreciate those who wish to be thankful for Ray's servitude, that is also true.   

Everyone should be reminded that the purpose of the forum "is primarily a place for people of a like mind to fellowship, and secondarily to discuss and question what they learn on bible-truths.com" The discussion therefore will center on the teachings of Christ as was conveyed through Ray, not the teachings conveyed through Craig, Dennis, Rene, Kat, Dave, Marques, or any member here. That does not mean there are not other teachers in the world or among us, it just means the forum discussions are narrowly focused.

Craig