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Jesus a substitute

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Gina:
Indeed.

The way I understand it is, He didn't simply die for us on our behalf and in our place so that we wouldn't have to die, but Jesus came to die to show us how to deny ourselves and die to self and live to God.

Romans 5:6-10

For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly.

For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die.

But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood,  shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.

For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

Is that His life now, in His resurrected state?  Or His life that He lived while on earth?  That's the only question I have (I don't mean to hijack your thread Micah!)

Deborah-Leigh:


Hi Gina

Maybe this would answer your question : ....shall we be saved by his life. Is that His life now, in His resurrected state?  Or His life that He lived while on earth?

Rev 1:18  .... He that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

Kat:

Found this email.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=2517.0 ---------------------

  The Scriptures tell us that Jesus died FOR US; FOR ALL; FOR OUR SINS.  Nowhere does it state or suggest that He died as a "substitute," in our "place and stead," or any such terminology.  Rom. 5:7 does not suggest either that one is dying as a "substitude" for another, but rather "for their sake," or "for them."  Notice that Jesus died "FOR OUR SINS." I do not think that anyone would suggest that Jesus died "in place of our sins?"  He died FOR US.  And therefore we need to be careful even in stating that "Christ's death does not save us from ANY death..."  Technically, it is true that we are not saved BY His death, but rather BY His life, nonetheless, unless there had been a death preceeding the life, we would be finished.  His death and resurrection WILL ASSUREDLY SAVE US FROM DEATH, and it will save all of humanity from death, as death itself is to be totally absolished .

    God be with you,
    Ray

dave:
Thanks. It's amazing how Jesus, not being our substitute, is totally absurd to so many people. People get angry, the teaching seems to mean to them that if he was not our substitute, that if he did not die instead of us, we don't get to heaven. He did it all, and what's left for us, is to just accept Jesus and get water baptized(unless that happened when you were a baby) your heaven bound when you die. Thanks again

Extol:
From the Nashville 2007 Conference (audio 7B):

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html

John 3:16  "For God so(thus) loved the world,”

Thus or in the manner, a lot of people think it’s saying He loved us so much, but that is not what this is saying. What this is saying is God loved us, in this way. This is the manner and way in which He loved us. In this way He loved the world.

“…that He gave His only begotten Son,”

He died, they killed Him on the cross, He died.

“…that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.”

Of course the Bible is written so man doesn’t understand it. That’s why some of these things are put in there, “that who-so-ever believes.” God knows and now we know, everybody is going to believe. So the ‘who-so-ever’ is going to be everybody.

But He gave His Son, now here’s the point I want to make and that is this, why did Christ have to die? Why? Why did the Father sacrifice His Son? Why did He have to do that? HE DIDN’T HAVE TO DO THAT! He didn’t have to do anything, HE’S GOD! Why DID He? Because whether you recognize it now or later in life or those in the resurrection to judgment or for the rest of eternity, we are going to know it for sure. That God died for us for no other reason than to show us that HE LOVES US! He did not have to die. He said, I will do it to show them.  How can I show them that what I am putting them through has real value? What can I do? I can promise them the world, I can give them mansions and youth and joyful life. I have all that to give, but they will say, you are only giving out of your abundance, of what you have. What can I really do, that you will know that I really love you? God said, I will DIE!
 
But God can’t die, He’s eternal, He has immortality, deathlessness. If you have immortality you can’t die. So He made a Son. He made Him great. To show us how great He was, He said, let Me show you what I can do when I make a Son. Create the universe first, now become a man, and now die.
Then they will know We love them.
Then they will know.

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