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[gregorydc]

I got kind of a "slap in the face" question. I was listening to matthew and when Jesus said "follow me" , why did they do that?  Jesus was no one at that time, scripture says he was not handsome, nor wealthy, nor influential, why did they follow him, what else did he tell them besides "follow me"?  Has Ray ever taught on this?  If there are opinions its ok but no teaching.  If there is nothing from Ray I will try to go at it myself. If there is something it would be a great head start for me also.
Greg

[lilitalienboi16]

I got kind of a "slap in the face" question. I was listening to matthew and when Jesus said "follow me" , why did they do that?  Jesus was no one at that time, scripture says he was not handsome, nor wealthy, nor influential, why did they follow him, what else did he tell them besides "follow me"?  Has Ray ever taught on this?  If there are opinions its ok but no teaching.  If there is nothing from Ray I will try to go at it myself. If there is something it would be a great head start for me also.
Greg

Yes Ray does address this,

The carnal crowds followed Jesus because of the miracles He was performing such as healing the sick, the blind, etc... they were carnal and the searched after a carnal sign.

I'm sure kat can pull up the exact area where ray talks about this. I just don't know exactly where it is and I'm to lazy to find it xD

God bless,

Alex

Edit: It appears I may have misunderstood your question. I thought you were talking about the crowds and not the apostles. Sorry! John gave you the correct information though!

[Kat]

Hi Greg,

You can see in Mark that they would have known of Jesus Christ, John the Baptist had been speaking of Him for quite some time.

Mark 1:3  The voice of one crying in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight."

Mark 1:7  And he preached, saying, "After me comes he who is mightier than I, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie.
v. 8  I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
v. 9  And it happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
v. 10  And immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him.
v. 11  And there came a voice from Heaven, saying, You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
v. 12  And immediately the Spirit drove Him into the wilderness.
v. 13  And He was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted by Satan. And He was with the wild beasts, and the angels ministered to Him.
v. 14  And after John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom of God,
v. 15  and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God draws near. Repent, and believe the gospel.
v. 16  And walking along beside the sea of Galilee, He saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.
v. 17  And Jesus said to them, Come after Me and I will make you fishers of men.
v. 18  And immediately they left their nets and followed Him.

These events with John the Baptist were before Jesus began His ministry and was known by the disciples as it was recorded by Mark and so they had at the very least heard of Jesus, the coming Messiah from John the Baptist and they most likely would already seen Jesus too before He approached them.

Another thing Jesus Christ was God... even in the flesh I would think that He would have an 'influence' that was irresistible 

mercy, peace and love
Kat

 

[Gina]

Another thing Jesus Christ was God... even in the flesh I would think that He would have an 'influence' that was irresistible 

"FOR HE TAUGHT THEM AS ONE HAVING AUTHORITY"

YOU FOOLS!  YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!

I fully realize my papers grind on the spirits of those who oppose God’s Word. And well they should. Why shouldn’t we quote the Scriptures with authority--the Scriptures are authority.

        "For He [Jesus] taught them as one having AUTHORITY and not as the scribes" (Matt. 7:29).

Jesus got His authority from His Father, and He used it. In fact, the very words He spoke were the words of His Father and not His own (John 17:, hence the Father too uses sarcasm and anger in teaching us (our Lord and His God have more personality than most have ever imagined). What a broad range of colorful metaphors, parables, and colloquialisms they used. Add to these sarcasm, exaggeration, satire, irony, and true anger, and we have very powerful, persuasive language and teaching.

JESUS TALKED NATURALLY

First, let’s be clear that Jesus did not go around speaking as if He were a performer on a Shakespearean stage. Jesus did NOT speak in archaic King James English! Jesus never said:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, when thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands and another shall gird thee and carry thee whither thou wouldest not" (John 21:18, King James Version).

No, that is NOT what Jesus said in modern English. That is what He would have said had He been speaking archaic King James English to the residents of England back 1611. But to our ears this archaic English now sounds strange and affected. We no longer speak in archaic King James English. If Jesus were to speak to us today in the English of the 21st century it would sound more like this:

    "The truth is when you were young, you were able to do as you liked and go wherever you wanted to; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands and others will direct you and take you where you don’t want to go" (John 21:18, The Living Bible).

Jesus spoke the language of the people, the language of the day. He was natural, He was colloquial, He was precise, He was articulate, He was emotional, He was sincere. Jesus spoke EXACTLY AND PRECISELY as He was inside, because it is a Scriptural truth that, "…out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Matt. 12:34).

First we will look at a few verses that describe Jesus and His ministry. Notice how mellow and tenderly He spoke to the poor and the humble, and how they record the history of His ministry.

. . .

http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

My two cents: 

As Kat pointed out, they knew of Him before He called them.  They had to.  I'm sure word got out about this "boy" who was teaching in the temples making scribes' eyes bulge having never "learned."  Can you just imagine what a scene that was!?  Such a wonderful thought.

Whatever it was that attracted them to Him, we're aware that God chose them from the beginning, but you're wondering how that went down, am I right?  You're right, it had nothing to do with the outward or physical since that would be much like we have today -- men in three-piece Italian silk suits and people flocking to them to the "fleece" market because they look the part.  Uh-uh.  Jesus had enough in Him considering Who He came from.  I imagine He looked really weak too:

Psalm 22:17  I can count all my bones; My enemies stare at me and gloat. ...

But as a brother pointed out earlier in another thread -- we no longer know Him after the flesh.  He is risen in power and is in you!

How cool is that?

23 Minutes in Hell

Although we can't know for sure what Jesus did look like, we can be sure of what He did not look like.

Many supposed pictures of Jesus have been painted to portray Him as the most handsome and perfect example of masculinity (though some feminine traits are present in most of them) the world has ever seen or known. Many artists are almost obsessed in portraying Jesus as the most handsome, majestic, and noble man to have ever lived. But in trying to so honor Him, they rather conspicuously contradict how the Scriptures describe Him. Jesus had nothing physically appealing that called attention to Him or made Him desirable to women.

Here's how the Concordant Literal Old Testament translates Isa. 53:2:

    "NO shape has He NOR honor when we shall see Him, And NO appearance NOR loveliness that we will covet [desire] Him."

See what I mean? "Who has believed our [Isaiah's] report?" We just read it, but will you believe it? God said through Isaiah that the coming Messiah (Jesus the Christ) would be fragile and have absolutely NO COMELINESS, NO GOOD LOOKS, that anyone would ever "desire Him."

Say, has anyone ever noticed Isa.53, verse 3? "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief" [Heb: 'choliy,' also defined as, "malady, disease, and sickness" (Dr. Strong's Hebrew Dictionary). Let's look at a couple of other translations of verse 3:

    "A Man of pains and knowing ILLNESS." (Concordant Literal Old Testament).

    "Man of pains, and familiar with SICKNESS" (Rotherham's Emphasized Bible).

    "A Man of suffering, accustomed to INFIRMITY" (The New American Bible For Catholics).

    "A Man of pain, Who knew what SICKNESS was" (James Moffett Translation).

Of the 38 times that this Hebrew word 'choliy' and it's root appear in Scripture, 33 times it is translated as "sick, sickness, or disease." Are you beginning to see something about Jesus you didn't know before? Imagine that: Not only was Jesus not handsome, but was also familiar with and accustomed to "sickness & disease." Let's look at some New Testament proof of Jesus' sickness & disease:

    And He [Jesus] said unto them [religious leaders and congregation], "Ye ['Ye' means 'ALL of you'] will surely say unto ME this proverb, Physician [Jesus is the Great Physician], heal Thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country [Jesus healed many in Capernaum, and now they want to see Jesus HEAL HIMSELF].

    "And He said... No prophet is accepted in his own country... many widows were in Israel in the days of Elijah... But unto none of them was Elijah sent, save unto Sarepta... a widow. And many lepers... and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman... And all they in the synagogue [the congregation and Church leaders], when they heard these things, were filled with wrath... and thrust Him out of the city, and led Him unto the brow of the hill where their city was built, that they might cast Him down headlong" (Lk. 4:23-28).

Don't think that all sickness and disease is the result of sinning. Or that sickness is God's way of showing His displeasure towards us. Jesus had not only a one-time sickness, but was inflicted with sickness much of His life.

Timothy was a very loyal follower of Jesus, and he was always sick:

    "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and your often [Gk: 'frequent'] infirmities" (I Tim. 5:23).

http://bible-truths.com/23-minutes-in-hell.html

And talk about contrast!  Geez louise,  Here we have this sick man speaking with AUTHORITY.  Wow,  That's just so in keeping with the way God works, you know? 

[longhorn]

They followed Christ because it had been " Appointed Beforehand " ( Pre-determined ) that they would.  Acts 4:27-28

Longhorn

[Deborah-Leigh]

God has predetermined that many should be reading this paper of mine at this precise "appointed time."

God will either cause you to accept these truths at this "appointed time" in your life, or He will cause you to reject these truths at this "appointed time" in your life, and your "will" is not "free" to do either. It is all of God! The circumstances are already set in motion which will bring about God’s desired intentions. Individually, however, each one will have perfectly reasonable and rational reasons for his or her decision.

Everyone who insists that he lives his life according to his own independent of God, free will choices, is "haughty and arrogant," and God will "punish" all such hearts. http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html

[wat]

Isn't Luke 5:1-11 a more in depth account?

1One day as Jesus was standing by the Lake of Gennesaret, with the people crowding around him and listening to the word of God, 2he saw at the water’s edge two boats, left there by the fishermen, who were washing their nets. 3He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little from shore. Then he sat down and taught the people from the boat.

4When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch.”

5Simon answered, “Master, we’ve worked hard all night and haven’t caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets.”

6When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break. 7So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.

8When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!” 9For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken, 10and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon’s partners.

Then Jesus said to Simon, “Don’t be afraid; from now on you will catch men.” 11So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.

So in addition to probably hearing about Jesus before, they witnessed this miracle.  Also, John 1:35-42 says

35The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 36When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”

37When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 38Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, “What do you want?”

They said, “Rabbi” (which means Teacher), “where are you staying?”

39“Come,” he replied, “and you will see.”

So they went and saw where he was staying, and spent that day with him. It was about the tenth hour.

40Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42And he brought him to Jesus.

Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).

I don't know the exact chronology of events, but it seems like this takes place before John is arrested and before Jesus calls for Peter and Andrew to follow him.  So if I have this right, Peter and Andrew had already met Jesus before he called to them on the Sea of Galilee.

[Gina]

Loc's post prompts me to remember this scripture:

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man. (Luke 2:52)

Let not mercy and truth forsake you: bind them about your neck; write them upon the table of your heart:  So shall you find favor and good understanding in the sight of God and man. (Prov. 3:3-4)

Jesus was obviously very well thought of by people and I imagine He was very likeable. Very easy to be around, I imagine.  (Except Ray pointed out that His speech EXPLODES with the pharisees. )  But not so with his disciples.  Just amazing the juxtaposition there.  The contrast.  I love it.

[Gina]

And you might even be wondering why so many desired to follow Him:

People went out to him from Jerusalem and all Judea and the whole region of the Jordan.
 (Matt. 3:5)

While others didn't -- like the pharisees, scribes, etc. 

I was wondering that myself, actually, and maybe you know this already but I just realized that they couldn't desire to follow Him because He blinded them.  Jesus was not exactly kind to them.  They were afraid of Him I believe, and that was why they couldn't repent.  It is the KINDNESS of God that leads to repentance.   And we know it was for the purpose of bringing in the fullness of the Gentile nations first.

Romans 11:24-25:

For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in

Matthew 13:11  He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.

Romans 11:7 What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,

Romans 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

But...

Romans 11:12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!



And in the end, everybody's eventually happy ("a smiley face for all"), which we believe by faith, not by sight.  If God didn't give us the gift of faith [hope] and we had to live by sight, no one would ever believe God, because it's not looking too good out there.

[arion]

God will either cause you to accept these truths at this "appointed time" in your life, or He will cause you to reject these truths at this "appointed time" in your life, and your "will" is not "free" to do either. It is all of God! The circumstances are already set in motion which will bring about God’s desired intentions. Individually, however, each one will have perfectly reasonable and rational reasons for his or her decision. http://bible-truths.com/lake15-D.html

That is so good and right on.  Everyone in the meat world and almost all in the church world totally believe in free will and we make our own decisions.  And of course regardless of the decisions made we all have reasons for deciding in a certain way and we think that those regions originate in ourselves.  And it's because we are not aware of the circumstances themselves crafting the decisions we make that we think we have 'free will'.

[santgem]

Another thing Jesus Christ was God... even in the flesh I would think that He would have an 'influence' that was irresistible 

"FOR HE TAUGHT THEM AS ONE HAVING AUTHORITY"

YOU FOOLS!  YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!

I fully realize my papers grind on the spirits of those who oppose God’s Word. And well they should. Why shouldn’t we quote the Scriptures with authority--the Scriptures are authority.

        "For He [Jesus] taught them as one having AUTHORITY and not as the scribes" (Matt. 7:29).

Jesus got His authority from His Father, and He used it. In fact, the very words He spoke were the words of His Father and not His own (John 17:, hence the Father too uses sarcasm and anger in teaching us (our Lord and His God have more personality than most have ever imagined). What a broad range of colorful metaphors, parables, and colloquialisms they used. Add to these sarcasm, exaggeration, satire, irony, and true anger, and we have very powerful, persuasive language and teaching.

JESUS TALKED NATURALLY

First, let’s be clear that Jesus did not go around speaking as if He were a performer on a Shakespearean stage. Jesus did NOT speak in archaic King James English! Jesus never said:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, when thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands and another shall gird thee and carry thee whither thou wouldest not" (John 21:18, King James Version).

No, that is NOT what Jesus said in modern English. That is what He would have said had He been speaking archaic King James English to the residents of England back 1611. But to our ears this archaic English now sounds strange and affected. We no longer speak in archaic King James English. If Jesus were to speak to us today in the English of the 21st century it would sound more like this:

    "The truth is when you were young, you were able to do as you liked and go wherever you wanted to; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands and others will direct you and take you where you don’t want to go" (John 21:18, The Living Bible).

Jesus spoke the language of the people, the language of the day. He was natural, He was colloquial, He was precise, He was articulate, He was emotional, He was sincere. Jesus spoke EXACTLY AND PRECISELY as He was inside, because it is a Scriptural truth that, "…out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Matt. 12:34).

First we will look at a few verses that describe Jesus and His ministry. Notice how mellow and tenderly He spoke to the poor and the humble, and how they record the history of His ministry.

. . .

http://bible-truths.com/fools.htm

True, having also given authority by God the Father.......

Jhn 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 

[onelovedread]

So Greg
What do you say to those answers. Do you accept no free will, Jesus influence and authority or God's causing you to accept at the appointed time?
See pretty sound to me, what do you think?

[gregorydc]

I don't think I had a problem with the "free will" part of it. Maybe the chronological order of the story is what I was missing.  It does make more since to me now when put in contextual order. As Ray said " there is more than one way to skin a cat" , maybe the "my cat" was running away from me at that time? Lol. I agree with what everyone said and yes you have all answered well. And I thank you all for letting me see in a different light, sometimes when things are heard and not looked at at the same time you get something different. Like making a cake without leaven, its kinda flat. Thank you all again
Greg