bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: physical universe  (Read 17348 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: physical universe
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2012, 12:52:47 AM »

Hey Alex,
I can't speak for Kathy but I wasn't talking about evolution.
I'm not quite sure which statement I made even implied it?
I was pretty confused by what you added.
If evolution says from one kind of animal comes another kind than I'm pretty sure I don't believe that.
Scripture says everything from its own kind.
If a seed produced a type of animal and then that animal produced another kind of animal...again, i'm pretty sure I don't believe that.
I don't believe in common ancestor or common species.

The premise for me believing life has the possiblity to exist elsewhere is because of water and earth.
Other earth type planets are categorized as such because they have rocks, metals, possible water or evidence of water and solid surfaces.
Whatever it took to produce life here on our planet, these planets don't have that "seed"
There may be missing elements that make it possible.

Another thing, I have not implied an unguided creation process.
I never assume God isn't involed in any one thing but why would I have to say?
"by him all things consist" so where is he not?

Hope that's clear
Antaiwan
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: physical universe
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2012, 02:04:58 AM »

Hey Alex,
I can't speak for Kathy but I wasn't talking about evolution.
I'm not quite sure which statement I made even implied it?
I was pretty confused by what you added.
If evolution says from one kind of animal comes another kind than I'm pretty sure I don't believe that.
Scripture says everything from its own kind.
If a seed produced a type of animal and then that animal produced another kind of animal...again, i'm pretty sure I don't believe that.
I don't believe in common ancestor or common species.

The premise for me believing life has the possiblity to exist elsewhere is because of water and earth.
Other earth type planets are categorized as such because they have rocks, metals, possible water or evidence of water and solid surfaces.
Whatever it took to produce life here on our planet, these planets don't have that "seed"
There may be missing elements that make it possible.

Another thing, I have not implied an unguided creation process.
I never assume God isn't involed in any one thing but why would I have to say?
"by him all things consist" so where is he not?

Hope that's clear
Antaiwan

Hello Antaiwan,

I may have misunderstood Kathy but from reading it before I thought she was talking about evolution in her third post and I decided to chime in on the "evolution" part of the conversation. I wasn't implying one way or another that you believed this or that, or that she did, merely what I believed and understood on the subject.

I apologize if It was misplaced.

As far as life in the universe goes based on earth like planets, to my knowledge, and I maybe ignorant of the facts on this one, we do not currently have any solid evidence to suggest other planets like earth exist in our universe. I.E. Discovered other planets with an actually ocean, not toxic environment, suitable land etc... What I believe the idea is, is that due to the fact that the universe is ever expanding and it is technically "infinite" in size that through mathematically probability, there must be another planet out there like earth.

Does mathematically probability equal certainty? I don't know... but God has declared the wisdom of man nothing more than foolishness before so I wouldn't be surprised if just because it's mathematically possible that it isn't a reality.

I know recently mars was discovered to have sedimentation indicative of a water system in it's distant past but that' is the past and as far as today is concerned, mars is a barren wasteland.

Hope this clarifies where I was coming from.

Again, apologies for the confusion. :)

God bless,

Alex

Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

cjwood

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
Re: physical universe
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2012, 02:07:17 AM »


Whatever it took to produce life here on our planet, these planets don't have that "seed"
There may be missing elements that make it possible.


"by him all things consist" so where is he not?





hi antaiwan.  i pulled the above statements from your post reply because i found them very interesting.  from the Scriptures we find that God the Father sent His only begotten Son to the planet earth.  His Seed.  it doesn't mention any other planet(s) that He sent His Son to be born of His Seed.  He caused it to be so on earth, using the virgin mary as the vessel.

and, "so where is He not" is an excellent and Truthful statement.  the God and Father of Jesus Christ is everywhere in His creation.  He knows exactly what is happening at any given time in all of the bazillion, trillion parts of His vast, vast, vast universe.  He IS Sovereign.

thanks for posting antaiwan.   :)  i enjoyed reading all the post replies to this thread.

claudia
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 02:11:52 AM by cjwood »
Logged

Kat

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2012, 10:26:33 AM »


Just to clarify, I go along with Alex's well put and informed description of micro evolution.

Quote
Adaptation and "micro evolution" as they would call it does occurs all around us but... "macro evolutions" as the origins of life is as of yet nothing more than a theory.
v
Adaptation brings about variations in species over time but it does not change one species into another. This would be the difference between "micro" and "macro" evolution.


mercy, peace and love
Kat
Logged

cjwood

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
Re: physical universe
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2012, 04:55:27 PM »

*moderators, please delete this post if the link i am trying to copy is not appropriate for the forum.

i thought this article was interesting, in light of this thread and the resulting post replies. 
our Father God and Master Creator must be chuckling at His "earthlings".

http://science.time.com/2012/10/15/never-mind-life-on-distant-planets-what-about-distant-moons/?hpt=hp_t3

claudia
Logged

wat

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2012, 10:33:13 PM »

I live in Realville.

Science: There is no scientific evidence of physical life outside the planet Earth.

Scripture:  There is not one scripture that says there is physical life anywhere but the Earth.

I also live in Realville.

Science: There is no scientific evidence of physical life outside the planet Earth, yet.

Scripture:  There is not one scripture that says there is not physical life anywhere but the Earth (as far as I know).

Not meaning to be confrontational, but I like to keep an open mind.  I'm not going to definitively say one way or the other whether life exists elsewhere.

It doesn't matter anyway.  While interesting, we shouldn't concern ourselves too much over such things.
Logged

telsa

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2012, 12:30:30 AM »

The whole creations awaits the unveiling of. Christ.anyone have any ideas why we have an entire physical universe that boggles the mind
It can't be there just for show
Anyone think there is other life out there?

My theory on the purpose of the cosmos is that they are the potential glory of God's elect in the form of matter. I like to think that Hawking radiation - the radiation that is emitted from black holes axially - is God transporting energy that is transmuted from matter through black hole processes. I like to think that this energy is a much a more pure form of the energy/matter dichotomy, i.e. the energy that our glorified bodies will constantly emit in the New Jerusalem.

Since no new matter or energy has been created since the Big Bang - if that even happened - I like to think that the purpose of the extensive matter realms of the universe are storehouses of the purified energy fields that we will one day contain as glorified angelic beings with physical bodies. Since heaven is eonian, the aeons we move through as a super-advanced civilization will become increasingly more tolerant of energy, as we - us as physical beings, headed by Jesus; and purely Spiritual beings like the Holy Spirit and Father - will all become more advanced and perfect as we "age". (I don't think even Father is done "growing"...I think He'll grow with us, and our growth will both increase, and be a result of, His growth)  Thus, the matter of the universe will be able to be transported via Hawking radiation from black holes to our bodies as we go through this "aging" process through the aeons, and we will become more glorious!  :)
Logged

telsa

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2012, 01:17:45 AM »

The whole creations awaits the unveiling of. Christ.anyone have any ideas why we have an entire physical universe that boggles the mind
It can't be there just for show
Anyone think there is other life out there?

My theory on the purpose of the cosmos is that they are the potential glory of God's elect in the form of matter. I like to think that Hawking radiation - the radiation that is emitted from black holes axially - is God transporting energy that is transmuted from matter through black hole processes. I like to think that this energy is a much a more pure form of the energy/matter dichotomy, i.e. the energy that our glorified bodies will constantly emit in the New Jerusalem.

Since no new matter or energy has been created since the Big Bang - if that even happened - I like to think that the purpose of the extensive matter realms of the universe are storehouses of the purified energy fields that we will one day contain as glorified angelic beings with physical bodies. Since heaven is eonian, the aeons we move through as a super-advanced civilization will become increasingly more tolerant of energy, as we - us as physical beings, headed by Jesus; and purely Spiritual beings like the Holy Spirit and Father - will all become more advanced and perfect as we "age". (I don't think even Father is done "growing"...I think He'll grow with us, and our growth will both increase, and be a result of, His growth)  Thus, the matter of the universe will be able to be transported via Hawking radiation from black holes to our bodies as we go through this "aging" process through the aeons, and we will become more glorious!  :)

Wow!  Where to begin?  I know you are new here.  But you are the poster child for why the Scriptures are so important.  They steady us and in the mouth of two or three witnesses they keep us in the Truth.

My advice.  Read extensively the articles on this website and use them as an introduction to the Scriptures.  Believe nothing until at least two Scriptures teach you a specific Truth and build from there.

May God guide your path if it is His will for you to learn His Truths at this time.

Hey John! Can you begin by pointing out to me the stuff that is purely ridiculous? I don't know what isn't in the Scriptures, but I was just theorizing based off of nothing in particular! Kinda along the lines of the little green men talk that was in this thread.
Logged

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: physical universe
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2012, 01:25:17 AM »

The whole creations awaits the unveiling of. Christ.anyone have any ideas why we have an entire physical universe that boggles the mind
It can't be there just for show
Anyone think there is other life out there?

My theory on the purpose of the cosmos is that they are the potential glory of God's elect in the form of matter. I like to think that Hawking radiation - the radiation that is emitted from black holes axially - is God transporting energy that is transmuted from matter through black hole processes. I like to think that this energy is a much a more pure form of the energy/matter dichotomy, i.e. the energy that our glorified bodies will constantly emit in the New Jerusalem.

Since no new matter or energy has been created since the Big Bang - if that even happened - I like to think that the purpose of the extensive matter realms of the universe are storehouses of the purified energy fields that we will one day contain as glorified angelic beings with physical bodies. Since heaven is eonian, the aeons we move through as a super-advanced civilization will become increasingly more tolerant of energy, as we - us as physical beings, headed by Jesus; and purely Spiritual beings like the Holy Spirit and Father - will all become more advanced and perfect as we "age". (I don't think even Father is done "growing"...I think He'll grow with us, and our growth will both increase, and be a result of, His growth)  Thus, the matter of the universe will be able to be transported via Hawking radiation from black holes to our bodies as we go through this "aging" process through the aeons, and we will become more glorious!  :)

Wow!  Where to begin?  I know you are new here.  But you are the poster child for why the Scriptures are so important.  They steady us and in the mouth of two or three witnesses they keep us in the Truth.

My advice.  Read extensively the articles on this website and use them as an introduction to the Scriptures.  Believe nothing until at least two Scriptures teach you a specific Truth and build from there.

May God guide your path if it is His will for you to learn His Truths at this time.

Hey John! Can you begin by pointing out to me the stuff that is purely ridiculous? I don't know what isn't in the Scriptures, but I was just theorizing based off of nothing in particular! Kinda along the lines of the little green men talk that was in this thread.

The part about us having "glorified physical bodies as angelic beings" is probably a good start. ;)
Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

telsa

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2012, 01:38:35 AM »

The whole creations awaits the unveiling of. Christ.anyone have any ideas why we have an entire physical universe that boggles the mind
It can't be there just for show
Anyone think there is other life out there?

My theory on the purpose of the cosmos is that they are the potential glory of God's elect in the form of matter. I like to think that Hawking radiation - the radiation that is emitted from black holes axially - is God transporting energy that is transmuted from matter through black hole processes. I like to think that this energy is a much a more pure form of the energy/matter dichotomy, i.e. the energy that our glorified bodies will constantly emit in the New Jerusalem.

Since no new matter or energy has been created since the Big Bang - if that even happened - I like to think that the purpose of the extensive matter realms of the universe are storehouses of the purified energy fields that we will one day contain as glorified angelic beings with physical bodies. Since heaven is eonian, the aeons we move through as a super-advanced civilization will become increasingly more tolerant of energy, as we - us as physical beings, headed by Jesus; and purely Spiritual beings like the Holy Spirit and Father - will all become more advanced and perfect as we "age". (I don't think even Father is done "growing"...I think He'll grow with us, and our growth will both increase, and be a result of, His growth)  Thus, the matter of the universe will be able to be transported via Hawking radiation from black holes to our bodies as we go through this "aging" process through the aeons, and we will become more glorious!  :)

Wow!  Where to begin?  I know you are new here.  But you are the poster child for why the Scriptures are so important.  They steady us and in the mouth of two or three witnesses they keep us in the Truth.

My advice.  Read extensively the articles on this website and use them as an introduction to the Scriptures.  Believe nothing until at least two Scriptures teach you a specific Truth and build from there.

May God guide your path if it is His will for you to learn His Truths at this time.

Hey John! Can you begin by pointing out to me the stuff that is purely ridiculous? I don't know what isn't in the Scriptures, but I was just theorizing based off of nothing in particular! Kinda along the lines of the little green men talk that was in this thread.

The part about us having "glorified physical bodies as angelic beings" is probably a good start. ;)

What about when Jesus answers the Sadduccees (I think): "they are neither married nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven"? I haven't done any research on this passage; it just came to mind. Forgive my ignorance!
Logged

lilitalienboi16

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1870
Re: physical universe
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2012, 01:57:37 AM »

The whole creations awaits the unveiling of. Christ.anyone have any ideas why we have an entire physical universe that boggles the mind
It can't be there just for show
Anyone think there is other life out there?

My theory on the purpose of the cosmos is that they are the potential glory of God's elect in the form of matter. I like to think that Hawking radiation - the radiation that is emitted from black holes axially - is God transporting energy that is transmuted from matter through black hole processes. I like to think that this energy is a much a more pure form of the energy/matter dichotomy, i.e. the energy that our glorified bodies will constantly emit in the New Jerusalem.

Since no new matter or energy has been created since the Big Bang - if that even happened - I like to think that the purpose of the extensive matter realms of the universe are storehouses of the purified energy fields that we will one day contain as glorified angelic beings with physical bodies. Since heaven is eonian, the aeons we move through as a super-advanced civilization will become increasingly more tolerant of energy, as we - us as physical beings, headed by Jesus; and purely Spiritual beings like the Holy Spirit and Father - will all become more advanced and perfect as we "age". (I don't think even Father is done "growing"...I think He'll grow with us, and our growth will both increase, and be a result of, His growth)  Thus, the matter of the universe will be able to be transported via Hawking radiation from black holes to our bodies as we go through this "aging" process through the aeons, and we will become more glorious!  :)

Wow!  Where to begin?  I know you are new here.  But you are the poster child for why the Scriptures are so important.  They steady us and in the mouth of two or three witnesses they keep us in the Truth.

My advice.  Read extensively the articles on this website and use them as an introduction to the Scriptures.  Believe nothing until at least two Scriptures teach you a specific Truth and build from there.

May God guide your path if it is His will for you to learn His Truths at this time.

Hey John! Can you begin by pointing out to me the stuff that is purely ridiculous? I don't know what isn't in the Scriptures, but I was just theorizing based off of nothing in particular! Kinda along the lines of the little green men talk that was in this thread.

The part about us having "glorified physical bodies as angelic beings" is probably a good start. ;)

What about when Jesus answers the Sadduccees (I think): "they are neither married nor are given in marriage, but are like the angels in heaven"? I haven't done any research on this passage; it just came to mind. Forgive my ignorance!

1 Cor. 15: 35-50 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

There is nothing wrong with what Jesus said, He speaks the truth. It's with what you said ;)

Angelic beings... with physical bodies.

Angelic means spiritual.

Understanding the future Resurrection and Great white throne judgement might aid in this understanding. If you want the scriptures on it then search them or read through the site;

Everyone will be raised at the great white throne judgement. The elect will be raised with powerful spiritual bodies like Christ. Nothing physical to them, no flesh. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. The rest of the dead, the sea of humanity, will be raised physical and judged. Hitler won't be raised with a glorified spiritual body. The elect and Christ will judge these people at the great white throne judgement, the "thousand year reign," the few chosen, the saviors of Hosea. Through this judgement, the sea of humanity will be tried and tested and the sea will vanish. Through this judgement the rest of humanity will be saved. The saints will judge the angels and the world ;)

I'm not 100% certain here but , i believe, that after this judgement, these people will be transformed into spiritual beings like the elect and God. Then will they enter the kingdom of heaven and death shall have been destroyed. Christ will lay down His reign to His Father and God will finally be all in all.

Hope that helps and answers your question.

God bless,

Alex
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 01:59:48 AM by lilitalienboi16 »
Logged
1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: physical universe
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2012, 03:08:39 AM »

Hi Alex!
I'm glad you chimed in, it just seemed awkward placement of events in the thread thats all.

Doing a little reading, I agree with what you stated in regards to Micro and Macro evolution.
I think and hope we all agree that species, given enough time, turning into another species is not a proven theory.
Like you said, even 4.6 billion years is not enough time!
Its not scriptural either.

The term evolution meaning change over time I can also agree with. We have to define that change though.
Evolution is really a misunderstood term. I try and stay away from it because of what people generally think it means.

Alex I don't doubt there are earth-like planets. Many have been discovered. (Research the Kepler Telescope Missions). What's in question is whether they support life(not every earth-like planet is habitable). You ever hear of the "sweet spot" or "goldilocks zone"!
Planets that orbit their host star in this zone possibly have liquid water on its surface.

As for the mathematical probability, the shear size of the universe is not evidence of life and we could be the only life bearing planet!
I'm fine either way.

I do wonder what God has in place that prevents or propagates life on a large scale(universal) or a small scale(our planet). The only thing I could come up with is our composition or what everything is made of. Our chemical composition is not foreign in the universe and something I know we don't have to speculate on.
Compare the chemical composition of the universe with us and we seem pretty common. But compare that chemical composition with the universe as a whole and we're only a small fraction. We have dark energy and dark matter taking up the rest. So I kind of hold onto that small fraction because I think its all we have.
Also that may prove how unique life is to our little rock! So I'm fine either way.

Hi Claudia!
Quote
from the Scriptures we find that God the Father sent His only begotten Son to the planet earth.  His Seed.  it doesn't mention any other planet(s) that He sent His Son to be born of His Seed.  He caused it to be so on earth, using the virgin mary as the vessel.
I'm not quite sure I understand what your saying here?

1Jn 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Are you saying world in this instance means the planet earth?
Earth = dry land
World = inhabitants of dry land
Is that too dumb down?? Or off?
But I will say the word “world” has a few more uses.

I enjoy this discussion as well Claudia!
I'm curious as to what the more scientific minds on the forum have to input!
Antaiwan

PS.
Telsa,
Sounds like another thread.
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus

wat

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2012, 03:54:14 AM »

With all the talk against evolution, I'll chime in and say I believe in evolution.  And I believe it's scriptural too.

I don't want to teach, but I would like to provide a scriptural basis for believing in evolution.  I think this will be acceptable.  For a while I disagreed with Ray on evolution, but it seems he was coming around to the idea not too long before he died.  Have you all seen this email?

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13694.0.html

It confirmed some of the things I was seeing in Genesis.  We all know the phrases "Let the earth bring forth" and "Let the waters bring forth."  That sounds like evolution to me, if not abiogenesis.  The phrases "after their kind" and "after his kind" sound like speciation (species evolving into other species) to me.  And we know the phrase "and it was so" is more accurately translated "and it came to be so" indicating a process taking time.

Also, man is spiritually a beast.  Why not physically as well?  First the physical and then the spiritual.  We're certainly different than animals, but I believe we are descended from beasts.

Well there's my scriptural reasoning for evolution.  Scientifically, I believe there's ample evidence out there.  We all believe the earth came about through 4.5 billion years of natural geologic processes, why not life as well?  Some say 4.5 billion years isn't enough time, but it's plenty of time.  Evolution happens faster than you think.  In fact, most of evolution has only occurred in the last 540 million years.  Have you heard of the Cambrian explosion?  This is the start of the geologic time period known as the Cambrian when many complex life forms began to appear.

I just don't believe God was continually creating new species all throughout earth history.  I believe life evolved through the natural laws he put in place.
Logged

Craig

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4282
  • There are two kinds of cops.The quick and the dead
Re: physical universe
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2012, 10:03:14 AM »

There is not scriptural or scientific evidence for evolution, unless you are talking about micro-evolution.  There is definately changes in species to better adapt to their environments and they evolve to reflect that. But there is no evidence for macro-evolution.  Horses do not become cows, or monkeys humans.

I don't understand how you get that "after his kind" or "after their kind" means evolving into another species??  Thats like telling my daughter to reproduce after her kind and she ends up producing a coyote.  How is that producing after her kind?

Ray was never coming around to the idea of macro-evolution.

Craig
Logged

wat

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2012, 06:16:43 PM »

I'll concede the "after their kind" point is the weakest, but I think "Let the earth bring forth living creatures...and it came to be so." makes a strong case for evolution.

Certainly you know Ray better than most, and I don't want to be the one to make him say something he didn't.  But based on that email, I get the sense that he didn't totally reject evolution.  Such statements like "The first couple of chapters of Genesis are written in such a way that many of the major concepts of biological evolution could be possible." and "The point is, however, regardless of how or by what processes God used in creation, He was behind all of it."  He also asked the question "So did God use a process of creation that could be compared to some of the theories of biological evolution?"  He didn't answer the question or even answer emphatically in the negative, which leads me to believe he at least somewhat was open to the possibility.  If this isn't true, please let me know.  If that's the case, I also would like to know, what am I to make of that email?
Logged

Joel

  • Moderator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 844
Re: physical universe
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2012, 11:54:09 PM »

It looks like to me that when God said "Let there be" he was planting Word seeds that brought forth exactly whatever it was that he had in mind to create.
It is true that you can cross a horse, and a donkey and get a mule. But a mule can not reproduce, as it is sterile.
There is evidence that modern man bred with Neanderthals, and that many of the worlds population have some Neanderthal DNA.
I agree with Craig on the kind, and species aspects.
Prophecy, and the wheels that go in motion in actually making a thing come to pass is really mind boggling, to God be the glory, and the power.
What I got from reading Ray's papers is; that he believed in creation as opposed to evolution only.

Joel



Logged

cjwood

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2095
Re: physical universe
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2012, 03:54:27 AM »

antaiwan, i was meaning that Christ was born of the flesh on the planet Earth, not any of the other known (or unknown) planets of the vast universe.  and in the Scripture referenced, 1 john 4:14, the word "world" is kosmos.  that can denote the inhabited earth or the universe.  if you look up "world" and "earth" in the greek, you will find another definition that falls under both.  that is "oikoumené".  under "earth" this word is translated to dwell, inhabit, and denotes the inhabited earth.  it is translated "world" in every place where it has this significance (except for luke 21:26 where it is translated "earth".)

anyway, that's what i was trying to say.

claudia
Logged

gregorydc

  • Guest
Re: physical universe
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2012, 10:57:28 PM »

Ok JohnChris here's scripture for your question.
1 John 3:2.  Which states that we will be like Him.  Christ is the creator/savior of the world.  In His millennial reign we rule with him righteously, teaching and learning the same. Now after that then what. We are Gods children and the only example we have for this is Christ Jesus the Son of God. He is the God of the old testament, it tells us what he has done from the foundations of the world, until (the new testament) he became a man and died for us. I was assuming that if we were to be like him that maybe that's what all the rest of the universe is for for us to do what Christ has done for us, get more children for God our Father. I was just giving my opinion, it was a thought that had crossed my mind when I read this topic. Again Gods thoughts are much higher than mine, I may be so far off the chart that this is heresy, I don't know. There are many scriptural/spiritual geniuses(compared to me by far) here that can easily disprove or prove what my thought was, and I hope someone points me in the correct direction. I apologize if I have written wrongly here; if this is wrong of me forgive me ,moderators, and remove this. But some thought would be nice too
Greg
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4311
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: physical universe
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2012, 06:05:41 AM »

No worries, Gregory, at least as far as I'm concerned. 

One way in which 'knowledge passes away' is when it is replaced by new and more accurate knowledge.  That process is bound to continue until we have the wisdom of God.  For my part, I couldn't be happier than to have my 'old knowledge' smashed and replaced with something more accurate.  I ain't done yet.  I see no reason to believe that my puny understandings will stay puny...and I see no reason why I shouldn't be happier and happier as it does, since that's been my experience since coming out of her in the first place.

Just me talking, but asking a few passages of scripture to explain in great detail HOW all that has preceded us came about AND what is to follow is asking too much and requiring scripture to do what it clearly was not meant to do.  As Dennis said recently, we are here to learn.  I don't think he meant that just about this forum.  We are 'here' to learn.  That's our purpose in this life.

The 'detail' about all this seen stuff past I leave to those who understand it, knowing that they are trained in methods of questioning and sussing out the facts whereas religious folk typically are not.  Just to note, the very words of Scripture in Genesis don't refer to "species" at all, but to 'kingdoms' (plants and animals) and various types of animals ordered by how they MOVE.  There is no mention of insects, specifically, or dolphins (which are not fish) or any other great details, such as microscopic life (which composes a remarkably large percentage of a human's 'mass' and without which we can't live).

As for the other stars, what comes to mind is the quote, "What is man that Thou aren't mindful of him?" MIGHT be extrapolated to include "what is our planet that Thou aren't mindful of it?"  Everything that is 'seen' is made of that which is 'not seen'.  If we ever 'see' what isn't now seen, then maybe we'll 'see' that we really do serve the Unknown God "in whom we live and move and have our being."  If a baby born 5000 years ago in southeast asia is connected to me in some God-determined way, then why is it impossible that a star whose light I now see 5000 years after it was emitted is also connected to me in some God-determined way?

     



   
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 06:34:27 AM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Akira329

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 718
  • "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings."
Re: physical universe
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2012, 07:33:40 PM »

Hey Dave!
I wanted to comment about what you said in regards to "species"
I disagree that the plants and animals are only defined by how they move.
We still contend with the phrase, "after his/her/their kind"
This simple phrase seems to break it down further into more categories.
For example: "every winged fowl after his kind"
Well we know that fowl is used for every animal that has wings.
But what if scripture broke it down further...

Lev 11:13  And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
Lev 11:14  And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
Lev 11:15  Every raven after his kind;
Lev 11:16  And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
Lev 11:17  And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18  And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
Lev 11:19  And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.


All the winged fowls mentioned here are birds yet they have their own kind.
There are many species of eagle, owls, and raven.
The next verses mentions the other winged fowls we know of, insects that can fly.
The point is that using the term species or kind can tell us who can mate and produce with like kind and who can't.

I guess what can help also is using the phrase in this manner:
"Computers of all kinds" There is more to that statement then meets the eye.
Supercomputers
Desktops
Servers
Laptops
Notebooks
Tablets.....
Below that we can have brands, within that different configurations and so on...

You can't put an Intel chip on a AMD motherboard or vice versa.(not withstanding new technology but hope you get the point!) ;)

These kinds do extend down to the microscopic level.
There are over millions of species of bacteria that reside in us! Crazy!
Antaiwan
Logged
"Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile"
-Albert Einstein
"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
- Jesus
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.052 seconds with 20 queries.