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Author Topic: Rapture Theory Question  (Read 4355 times)

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se7en

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Rapture Theory Question
« on: October 12, 2012, 01:23:13 PM »

on http://bible-truths.com/rapture.htm

Is Ray specifically talking about the split rapture theory in which the saintly Jews have one rapture while the saintly gentiles have another during christs second coming?

I'm about 75% through the article. However, i've heard it said before that Jesus taught the old testament "go and tell people to obey the law" (because that's all there was during that time) while Paul taught the new gospel of grace (new testament) "Jesus obeyed the law for you, now faith/trust in Him, it's all by grace".  Does Ray talk about this in any of his teachings?

I haven't finished that whole article yet but I was wondering if Ray ever touches on this subject?

Thanks ahead of time guys! I appreciate you all!
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se7en

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 08:52:42 AM »

I'm trying to understand the thought process and flow...

Jesus taught the seven spiritual laws on the mount only to his disciples and they still didn't understand what he was saying until Pentecost? When Pentecost arrived, is this when the disciples understood everything? Or did they have to wait until Paul showed up to hear his gospel, which is the same gospel of Christ, it's just that they didn't understand fully until Paul came along?

The rich young ruler asked Jesus "what must I do to be saved?" and Jesus gave Him the (old testament) law.  Was Jesus at that moment, answering a fool according to a fool? Because "it's not for them to know, but it's for you (the disciples) to know (at this time)."

Then later Jesus tells his disciples right before he ascends to go out and teach others what I have taught you, and to obey. He was telling his disciples to go and teach and obey the Seven Spiritual Laws in the New Covenant?

Thanks guys for helping me to understand this better! :) John, your post alone has helped tremendously!  At the end of your post Ray said that he would teach on the seven spiritual laws, does he have an article concerning this?

Thanks all!
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Kat

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 01:23:30 PM »


Hi se7en,

The only way that anybody can know anything spiritual is if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling.

John 16:13  "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own [authority], but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

All of the disciples were given the Holy Spirit indwelling at Pentecost and they began to understand the spiritual concepts that Jesus had been teaching them. So they had a vast amount of things that they had seen and heard to draw on to help them understand. But it's a process, God reveals to each individual to varying degrees and at differing times through the Spirit, so that we are all growing in the knowledge of the truth at our own pace.

Now each is also given differing gifts (1Cor 12:4), so that we are able to be used by the spirit in us as God wills. I would think all of the Disciples became strong teachers of the truth, after spending those years under Jesus' guidance. But some people become much more noticeable, as Paul wrote a lot of letters that have become most of the books of the NT. So now Paul is renowned, because his teachings have been read by millions.

That's just some thoughts I have on this.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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dave

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 08:16:36 PM »

I have only a simple(I hope) question. Why, when Jesus returns is it called a "second coming" when in the Bible there is no mention of a "second coming?"
From what I can tell the Bible only states...Heb 9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. And "Appear" for me anyway, holds more meaning that a second coming.  Acts.1:11 is similar. Come Thayer..
Thayer Definition:
1) to come
1a) of persons
1a1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving
1a2) to appear, make one’s appearance, come before the public
2) metaphorically
Just wondering. Peace and Love Through Jesus :)
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se7en

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 01:58:40 PM »

John,

In your reply you said...

"And remember, Jesus summed up the entire Law and the teachings of all the Prophets in two statements: First, we are to love God with all our mind, heart, and being---Second, love our neighbors as we love ourselves.  That's it.  No long list of rules."

Isn't that Jesus teaching the old testament law?  That's all they had at that time. Did Jesus tell them this statement because it was a "answer a fool according to a fool"? Who has ever loved God with all their heart all of the time?  No one can do this. You will run to the end of yourself trying to love God with all your heart (trying to obey the law).  When, now, under the spiritual law of grace, I look at Jesus and His love for me, and see how much he loves me. It's not about our ability to love Him. It's Him giving us the revelation of how much He loves us. And out of that, I can't help but obey.

In this is love........ not that we love him, but that he first loves us and gave himself for us.....

That describes love right there. So my focus is not trying to obey the law and trying to love god, my focus is on Jesus, and how much he loves me. That's grace! And out of this revelation of love for me, I automatically obey as a by product to faith in Christ.

Am I looking at this through right goggles? I'm wanting to understand this better. Is this the way we should be viewing the 7 spiritual laws?

Thank you all so much for your posts! This is really helping!
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se7en

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 06:05:45 PM »

Thank you so much!

John, you said... "Ray discusses somewhere that there are not two laws---an Old Law and a New Law---there is One Law--God's Law.  There are however an Old Covenant way of observing this Law and a New Covenant way."

That statement right there! that helps a ton!  I know I've read Ray's articles concerning this, how he talks about one law, but I didn't make the connection between the old covenant way of observing the law and the new covenant way.  First the physical THEN the spiritual.

PRAISE THE LORD!!!!

It's all starting to fall in place, I can see the connections now :)  Thank you guys sooooo much!

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se7en

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 03:29:44 PM »

Is there an article or video/audio where Ray talked about the 7 spiritual laws below?



"Most in the Concordant group of believers, and most in Christendom, have never even HEARD of the Seven Spiritual Laws in the New Covenant. Let me at least list them (we can discuss them at a later date). They all overlap, however, there are seven laws listed in the New Testament: 

The Law of God...Heb. 10;16,

The Law of Christ...Gal. 6:2,

The Law of the Spirit...Rom. 8:2,

The Law of Righteousness...Rom. 9:30-31,

The Law of Faith...Rom. 3:27,

The Law of Liberty...James 1:25, and

The Law of Life...Gal. 3:11, 6:8.

If you are wondering where the "law of LOVE" is, don't, seeing that the Jesus Christ and God His Father ARE LOVE."


thanks all!

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Kat

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2012, 11:59:01 AM »


I have only a simple(I hope) question. Why, when Jesus returns is it called a "second coming" when in the Bible there is no mention of a "second coming?"
From what I can tell the Bible only states...Heb 9:28  So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. And "Appear" for me anyway, holds more meaning that a second coming.  Acts.1:11 is similar. Come Thayer..
Thayer Definition:
1) to come
1a) of persons
1a1) to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving
1a2) to appear, make one’s appearance, come before the public
2) metaphorically
Just wondering. Peace and Love Through Jesus :)

I'm just now remembering this question and wanted to give some Scriptures in reply to it.

Jesus Christ will indeed "come again," as the word again does imply a second time.

John 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, so that where I am, you may be also.

In Acts 1 the angels gave witness to Jesus Christ ascending back to heaven, but would also return in like manner.

Acts 1:11  who also said, Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into the heaven? This same Jesus who is taken up from you into Heaven, will come in the way you have seen Him going into Heaven.

Paul also taught that Jesus would come again and the elect would meet Him in the air on His descent back to earth.

1Th 4:15  For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
v. 16  For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.
v. 17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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dave

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2012, 12:37:43 PM »

Thanks. I understand that, but if i read Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Isn't or hasn't it been a continuous "coming?"  "parousia" a being near. Peace :)
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gregorydc

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2012, 01:35:02 PM »

Micah maybe your scripture is speaking total spirit, and maybe Kat's are speaking both physical and spirit?  Because most of hers were when Jesus was on the earth.  That's what I feel when I read this.  Just a thought
Greg 
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Joel

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Re: Rapture Theory Question
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2012, 12:14:47 AM »

There is another scripture concerning Christ's appearing.

Colossians 3:4- When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Joel
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