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All is out of God
Kat:
Just a couple of things from Ray on this thing about evil.
http://bible-truths.com/email3.htm#evil -----------------------------------
There are billions and billions of people that God has not yet saved. Your questions is more basic than just why didn't God save those in the twin towers.
All of such things are examples of evil. God created evil for a purpose. So naturally He will not make evil inoperative at every turn in the road or there would have been no purpose in creating it in the first place.
Evil serves many noble purposes. One of which is a back drop for good. Good cannot be understood or certainly not appreciated without a backdrop of evil. Evil makes good appear even better and is certainly much more appreciated.
Evil is necessary for the production or development of good. You cannot name one virtue that is not in some way produced by the resistance to some form of evil.
All knowledge is matter of contrast and relativity. One cannot know what light is unless he has been acquainted with darkness. One has no conception of large unless he also knows of things that are small. Up is only up in relation to down. Life is the opposite of death, etc. To understand and fully appreciate all of these things, there are many necessary experiences to go through. God creates and puts us through these many things in the development of godly character.
All of these evils can be likened to the creation of a beautiful building. Ugly scaffolding is necessary in the construction of this building. It is ugly and serves no purpose other than in the actual construction of the building. When the building is completed, the scaffolding is torn down and discarded. It serves no further purpose. All evil will be discarded one day. And the last enemy, DEATH, will likewise be ABOLISHED FOR EVER (I Cor. 15:26) and God will "ALL in All"!!!
http://bible-truths.com/email2.htm#suffer ------------------------------------
God created EVIL, and God uses EVIL. But, He uses it for a GOOD AND HOLY AND RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE! "Evil" has nor moral bias. Evil is only a SIN when men use evil against other men. When God uses it, it is NO sin.
v
God Himself possesses a knowledge of good and evil. God wants SONS. Sons posses the attributes of their Father. It was necessary for us to learn of good and evil. They are both in the same fruit tree, as there can be no knowledge of good without a knowledge of evil. All of life's knowledge is a contrast. We cannot appreciate health unless we see sickness, we cannot appreciate food until we get hungry. When cannot know what light is unless we experience darkness.
v
God has designed men to be spiritually WEAK. Men go against God's WILL--God planned for men to go against His will--it was His original INTENTION. But...BUT, absolutely NO ONE HAS EVER OR EVER WILL, GO AGAINST HIS INTENTION! Romans 9:19 should read, "Why, then, is He still blaming? for who has withstood HIS INTENTION?" And the answer is, "absolutely NO ONE"!
God be with you,
Ray
Deborah-Leigh:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,3720.0.html
Where is God? EVERYWHERE!
If you're in a life raft, out in the middle of the ocean, you don’t have to cry out to God, to help you. God can see you, in the big ocean. He’s there, whether He’ll help, that’s a different story. But He is there.
.......... Everything is out of God.
So there was a time, before everything was out of God, when there was just God. That is a hard concept... take away people, take away the earth, the stars, the planets, the solar system, the galaxies, and the whole universe, take it all away and what do you have? If you take away the creation, what is left? Would it be dark or light? You have to pay attention to the words. Take away the creation of the universe and you’re not left with blackness of outer space. I’m just going to read it to you.
Isa 45:5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;
v. 6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.
v. 7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.
So if we do away with the created universe, what do you have? You have God and light. He created the darkness. But I had someone say to me, cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light, it’s not something, it’s the absence of something. I say, I know that sounds very scientific, but God’s thoughts are not your thoughts, neither His ways our ways, and God created darkness. Except that there be, this envelope of darkness that shrouds us from God, it would be light all the time, everywhere. There is no darkness with God. Only in His creation did He create darkness.
So don’t think before God created the universe, He was drifting around in outer space, with nothing to sit on, nowhere to go and nothing to do. It doesn’t even say that there was nothing. It doesn’t say in the beginning there was nothing and God made something. It says in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, but God doesn’t live in things that are created. He doesn’t need that for habitation, because He existed before He created those things. Now He resides in heaven, the heavens being (among other things) us. Our spirituality is of heaven and He dwells in man. Don’t you know your body is a holy temple of God. There are multiple heavens.
I like how Ray expresses that " an envelope of darkness shrouds US ....."
Scriptures also mention waking up. As we sleep, we are in a kind of darkness that spell binds us in a dream like state of thinking wrongly about God. This is as looking through a glass darkly, dreaming up ideas that are far from the mind of God! ~ :)
Arc
Dave in Tenn:
Thanks for pulling that up, Deb. Man, how I needed to hear that today.
darren:
Lilitalienboi16 you said "God created the world, He dealt with some form of evil that was without Him which produced this knowledge of evil that He now posseses". OK He dealt with some form of evil??? Then you say this " He just knew about it from the begiinning because He too, experienced it" Really?? Some form of evil that God Himself experienced and dealt with from the beginning. Did you understand my post? All is out of God. ALL. Sorry do you have scripture to back your statements up?? Who or what evil did God come in contact with in order to give Him the knowledge of evil before God Himself created anything. When there was nothing but God before any creation?? Ray asked this same question in one of his audio's Where did God come up with the concept of evil? Where did God get the knowledge of evil? Ray said before God created the universe when there was ONLY God Himself. How did God know evil?? There was nothing before God. All is out of God. I was seeing if I might have missed what Ray had said about this question. Did I clarify??
Darren
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: darren on November 06, 2012, 11:39:05 PM --- Lilitalienboi16 you said "God created the world, He dealt with some form of evil that was without Him which produced this knowledge of evil that He now posseses". OK He dealt with some form of evil??? Then you say this " He just knew about it from the begiinning because He too, experienced it" Really?? Some form of evil that God Himself experienced and dealt with from the beginning. Did you understand my post? All is out of God. ALL. Sorry do you have scripture to back your statements up?? Who or what evil did God come in contact with in order to give Him the knowledge of evil before God Himself created anything. When there was nothing but God before any creation?? Ray asked this same question in one of his audio's Where did God come up with the concept of evil? Where did God get the knowledge of evil? Ray said before God created the universe when there was ONLY God Himself. How did God know evil?? There was nothing before God. All is out of God. I was seeing if I might have missed what Ray had said about this question. Did I clarify??
Darren
--- End quote ---
It seems you did not understand my post at all.
Let's try this again.
Here is what ray says; http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4472.0.html
--- Quote ---
Now He creates man and He said, “now he can become like one of Us, to know…” and of course you can say good, because God is good. But evil? How did God know evil? What in the universe... well there wasn’t a universe, well what in God then was there that was evil? How did He know evil? He created evil, but where did it come from? Where did the idea come from? When it was only God, who is righteous and good and Holy and just and all of that, where was the evil? God was evil?
What I’m saying is He knew evil, how did He know evil? Now man understands evil. They are going to be banished from the garden and they die. This is an evil that has come upon them, because they disobeyed. Which is another evil you see. But God said “We understand good and evil,”( Gen. 3: 22) Before there was a creation, God understood evil. From where? From what?
His reply He’s just thinking ahead that He is going to create something called evil? But where would that concept come from? If He’s thinking ahead, He’s going to create a Son, who was going to live righteous and good. But that comes from Him, that is what He is. God is love, God is spirit, He’s invisible, this is what He is. God is not evil. How did He know evil? I have some ideas about that. What I’m saying is you can all see that it was there. We’re going to go a little deeper then these other people go.
God is all wise, all knowing, all powerful and He does not change. Did He ever? That’s what He is now, but did He have to go through something to become what He is. Hmm, wow maybe there is more glory in that then you could ever conceive of. Well why doesn’t He change? ’What are you trying to say Ray, are you trying to insinuate that He’s learning?’ No, He knows it all. When you reach perfection, you don’t change. Once you reach total perfection, you do not change! Jesus Christ is the express, very absolute, image of God. Guess what? He doesn’t change. You don’t change when you are perfect. Total perfection! Well you think about that.
God is a certain way. I don’t know if He was always that way. I just know He always will be that way now. I don’t know what God went through, and some people will call me a heretic for that, but I really don’t care, it’s just something I feel in my spirit. That God knows evil and good, first hand, some how. His Son was not the first to suffer evil, I believe that happened, some how. Now you will say, how? Where? Well He had a knowledge of good and evil before there was a creation, He had that. Where did He get it? He got it from somewhere.
--- End quote ---
Two things;
1. I don't appreciate your manner of speaking nor the vibe it gives off. You come off as quiet rude and condescending. Do I have a scripture? Do you think I responded to your question to purposely deceive you and lie to you?
2. I bolded and underlined extremely important statements made by ray which imply certain things about God before our creation which I tried to share with you in my first reply that you wanted nothing of so I'll leave you to read and re-read what ray is saying and maybe it will click.
Lastly... Which scriptures from what I said would you like? The one about God creating evil? The ones about God not being evil? The one's where God uses the evil man does for good?
In Christ,
Alex
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