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What will happen to those who teach eternal hell?

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Rhys 🕊:
I was recently listening to the audio listed below and has got me thinking about those who teach an eternal hell.


Repentance & Guilty of All . . . . . . . . Nashville Conference 2005

Let me tell you something, the scribes and the Pharisees never taught a doctrine this damnable. You listen to Jesus Christ. He called them everything but… I won’t say it. They never taught a doctrine half, a tenth, not a billionth as evil as what the church is teaching today. I’m telling you, this teaching of hell is the ultimate blasphemy. There is no greater sin that any human being can think or do, than to believe that the God that they worship will actually torture their mothers and fathers and some of their sisters and brothers and relatives in real fire for all eternity. It’s the ultimate sin. They think they are doing God a favor by teaching this.

No, they’re not going to be tortured for all eternity, because we are teaching against that. But wait until you find out what their punishment will be. It will blow you away.


It seems to me so many other sins seem terrible these days and brought to the front of the cue and from what I have heard of those in the world, they think hell is just a joke. Those in the church are either warning those of the coming torture, all they seem rather quiet which I always thought seemed strange when they sit down together drinking there coffee and going on about the wonderful things going on in the lives while knowing all the other people around them are on the way to hell but that’s OK the coffee is great. For those that do warn others at least they are putting into practice what they believe.

While thinking about this the following questions have come to mind.

Does Ray mention what will happen to these people in the judgement? I think he mentioned he would cover it.

Many people I have known that teach hell seem to have a lot of other good things they are doing, such as helping the poor, supporting those in many ways with there problems and so on. Because they teach hell or believe it do all these other things count for nothing as they are committing the ultimate sin and there punishment will be so severe the good things will have little reward?

Is God’s judgement the same for those who believe and don’t teach it and those who teach others? I can see bad things on both sides of this.

Should these people be warned to stop before it’s too late for them? Of course you have to know what you are talking about before doing this. Question is will they listen and should we be warning them. I came out of church and to bible truths and never had anyone warning me so wonder if I should warn them all pray for them all do nothing. ("...that he [the elders] may be able to [1] entreat with sound teaching as well as to [2] expose those who contradict" (Titus 1:9, Concordant NT).)

Is the punishment fair as many are only doing what they are taught and as still in the church they are deceived? As Ray says they think they are doing God a favor which shows they are deceived (For it is GOD [not us, GOD] which works in us BOTH to will and to do of HIS good pleasure" Phil 2:13)


In the past I never felt this teaching was such a problem. More and more now I see it like Ray states. I feel for my friends who are still teaching this. They seem wonderful in so many other ways and have helped me a lot in the past often going out of their way to help me with my issues.  I guess I feel concerned for them when they want to please God but is God pleased with them.



The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

Rhys

Deborah-Leigh:
 
Ignorance and fear teach the worst about God. God is not the monster Religion worships and blindly imagines.   


The DEPTHS of Satan - teaches that what God does mostly, is HATE!....This doctrine is both the most evil and the most stupid....http://bible-truths.com/lake11.html

 
Ray has thoroughly debunked religious false teaching that if you aren't saved before you die, then it is "too late." There is no "too late" for God.


 There is a season for everything for the human condition. God is not subject to human conditioning." God isn't a person." L Ray Smith


Eternity is not a condition of time. Eternity is timeless. Timeless doesn't mean endless time. It means without time. Ray touched on the subject of eternity and time, in the latter part of one of his beautiful conferences. You might want to go and look and see what Ray said. Invariably, you'll find in the search, other pointers to Truth that God has a way of putting in front of you!

Arc

Kat:

Rhys,

When you think about it everybody will be raised up at resurrection thinking/believing/understanding exactly the way they did when they died. When people that have such twisted ideas about who God is stand before the judgment seat of our spectacular and probably frightening Lord God in all His glory... what are they going to think is happening? It will not be what they had supposed. All who are not in the first resurrection will be raised up to condemnation and that should be obvious to them pretty quickly. 

Jude 1:14  Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,
v. 15  to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him."

Mat 25:41  "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting (eonian) fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

So what will they think is about to happen to them? What do they understand about this judgment, giving account? Well most Christians think it's either heaven or hell fire... and what is happening to them will not be their idea of heaven. So to their utter dismay they are cast into the Lake of fire....

Rev 19:20  Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet G5578 who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Who is this "beast?" We all are while in the carnal flesh and who is a "false prophet?" Wouldn't it be those who are teaching/preaching falsehood about who God is?

G5578 (false prophet) a spurious prophet, that is, pretended foreteller or religious impostor: - false prophet.

Realize that God will not judge all Christians the same, He looks on the heart and knows exactly what each person is guilty of or desire reward for. Some deserve "many stripes," other few, but all that are raised up after the first resurrection are carnal sinners and deserve condemnation.

Rom 3:10  As it is written:
       "There is none righteous, no, not one;
v. 11  There is none who understands;
       There is none who seeks after God.
v. 12  They have all turned aside;
       They have together become unprofitable;
       There is none who does good, no, not one."

1Co 3:11  For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
v. 12  Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
v. 13  each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
v. 14  If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
v. 15  If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Now if you have a good understand of this truth and feel compelled to warn people, then do so. That's what the Apostles did, that is what Ray did.

Col 1:24  And now I am happy about my sufferings for you, for by means of my physical sufferings I am helping to complete what still remains of Christ's sufferings on behalf of his body, the church.
v. 25  And I have been made a servant of the church by God, who gave me this task to perform for your good. It is the task of fully proclaiming his message,
v. 26  which is the secret he hid through all past ages from all human beings but has now revealed to his people.
v. 27  God's plan is to make known his secret to his people, this rich and glorious secret which he has for all peoples. And the secret is that Christ is in you, which means that you will share in the glory of God.
v. 28  So we preach Christ to everyone. With all possible wisdom we warn and teach them in order to bring each one into God's presence as a mature individual in union with Christ.
v. 29  To get this done I toil and struggle, using the mighty strength which Christ supplies and which is at work in me. (GNB)

But realize that you will be held accountable for what you teach, it is a good thing to tell others of this truth, but it is also a high calling that not all receive.

1Co 12:27  Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
v. 28  And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.
v. 29  Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles?
v. 30  Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?
v. 31  But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Rene:

--- Quote from: Rhys NZ on December 02, 2012, 01:00:04 AM ---
Does Ray mention what will happen to these people in the judgement? I think he mentioned he would cover it.

Rhys

--- End quote ---

Hi Rhys,

In "Judgement" all people will learn righteousness.  Ray has taught on this many times. Here is a section from the "Lake of Fire" series Part 16 D-4 that touches on this subject:

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D4.htm

                                                           Gehenna Fire Judgement

JUDGMENT AS DEFINED BY SCRIPTURE IS GOOD

"The Judgment of God" are scary words for most people. Partly this is due to the Church portraying Judgment as a horrible and fearful thing involving sentencing many to an eternity of insane torture by fire. We will now take a Scriptural look at the doctrine of Gehenna Fire Judgment.

God is presented as the Great Judge over His creation from early Scripture. The first time the word "judge" is found in Scripture:

    "...shall not the Judge of all the earth do right" (Gen. 18:25).

Actually this phrase is: "shall not the Judge of all the earth do justice."

"Justice" is translated from the Hebrew mishpat and it means according to Dr. Strong: 'a verdict-favorable or unfavorable.' And our dictionaries add to this: "a quality of being just; fairness." So "justice" is "just and fair" (interestingly John Hagee teaches that an eternity of torture in a literal hell of literal fire is "JUSTICE," and Dr. James Kennedy teaches that hell is "FAIR").

NO, an eternity of torture in fire is not "justice," nor is it "fair," as these two great pillars of heresy contend.

The word "Judge" in this verse is from the Heb: shaphat and means according to Dr. Strong: "judge, to pronounce sentence-to vindicate or punish."

It is clear that they are very similar. God the Judge will, "do JUSTICE," or will "Judge justly," or as King James translates it "do right." And not surprisingly, the New Testament tells us the very same thing:

    "Because He [God] has appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness..." (Acts 17:31).

Notice that Jesus will [1] judge, [2] the world, [3] in righteousness.

Next let's read one of my favorite verses (Isaiah 26:9):

    "When Thy [1] judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants [2] of the world [3] will learn righteousness."

What a marvelous spiritual match. When Jesus Judges the world in righteousness, the world will "learn righteousness."

Ironically, the first time we find the words "justice and judgment" in the Bible is in the very same verse:

    "For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him" (Gen. 18:19).

Here we learn that doing "justice and judgment" brings the blessings of God.

Will Jesus and God His Father do the "right" and just thing when it comes to judging this world? Certainly. In the Old Testament we read that God does not change (Mal. 3:6); God the Father does not change (James 1:17); Jesus Christ does not change (Heb. 13:8). Use your God-given minds for a moment and consider the insanity of infinite punishment for finite sins, and the same punishment for both gross and minor sins.

    "But the fearful [Gk: timid], and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

Does anyone in their right mind believe that murderers and timid people should be sentenced to the same "eternity of punishment?" Why even most heathen governments match the punishment to fit the nature and degree of a crime. But most Christian theology does not have even the good sense of some pagans.

Even when "many stripes" were administered (even among wicked men), they were to be limited to 40 lashes: Deut. 25:3; Lk 12:47; Acts 16;23; II Cor. 11:24.

To "judge" means to set right, whether it is in chastening or sentencing. "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right"-that is to judge justly so as to bring about change. 

    "When Thy [God's] judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world [everyone] will learn righteousness" (Isaiah 26:9).

When the wicked are left to their own devices, they will NOT learn righteousness, but when God's just judgments are added to the mix, and Jesus judges in righteousness, they cannot but "learn righteousness." Why won't the Church teach these marvelous truths? Well, of course it can't, seeing it is deceived.

God's judgments and the knowledge of His plan and purpose for humanity has reached precious few in the past, but it is prophesied to cover the earth:

    "They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Isa. 11:9).

And:

    "For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Habakkuk 2:14).

It is an easy thing to turn men (and women) into beasts and heartless criminals. Torturing them or annihilating them would likewise be an easy thing for God to do. But turning vile and demented criminals like Hitler, Saddam, or Charles Manson into godly saints, now that's an accomplishment.

Of course most Christians and theologians and pastors do not believe that God is up to a task this great. Just wait. If God can spiritually transform a criminal like the Pharisee Saul, into the loving Apostle Paul, Saddam and the boys will not challenge God's ability to convince them of their great need of repentance.


René

Gina:
Hey Rhys,

This is a tough topic that doesn't have a clear cut answer everyone will be satisfied with. 

Ray specifically said they will incur a punishment that will apparently be a surprise, even to us.

Maybe this will help you find the answer you're searching for re what punishment certain people will receive:

Luke 12

41 Peter said to him, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everybody?"

42 The Lord said, "Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the right times?

43 Blessed is that servant whom his lord will find doing so when he comes.

44 Truly I tell you, that he will set him over all that he has.

45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My lord delays his coming,' and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken,

46 then the lord of that servant will come in a day when he isn't expecting him, and in an hour that he doesn't know, and will cut him in two, and place his portion with the unfaithful.

47 That servant, who knew his lord's will, and didn't prepare, nor do what he wanted, will be beaten with many stripes,

48 but he who didn't know, and did things worthy of stripes, will be beaten with few stripes. To whoever much is given, of him will much be required; and to whom much was entrusted, of him more will be asked.

2 Timothy 3

1 But know this, that in the last days, grievous times will come.

2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 without natural affection, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good,

4 traitors, headstrong, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God;

5 holding a form of godliness, but having denied its power. Turn away from these, also.

6 For some of these are people who creep into houses, and take captive gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,

7 always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Even as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so do these also oppose the truth; men corrupted in mind, who concerning the faith, are rejected.

9 But they will proceed no further. For their folly will be evident to all men, as theirs also came to be.


There is no denying that a few truly don't know what they're teaching is wrong and blasphemous and NOT the Lord's will. 

But there are many who definitely know the difference between right and wrong.   They will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb. (Ref. Rev. 14)

Someone remarked, a lamb couldn't possibly torment anyone.  True, but when God opens your eyes and you see yourself in the Light of Christ's Goodness (as Paul saw himself)...it's humbling to say the least -- it's akin to mental torture.  (Oh my God I can't believe I did that. - You know what I'm saying -- we've all said that ourselves over stupid childish stuff we've done and we know that feeling.)

They will be saved in the end, sure.  But if they do not examine their words, and repent now in this life, they will not reign with Christ; they will have received their rewards here on earth.   

Hey, wherever your treasure is, there will your heart be also.  We must be willing to forsake ALL!  It's not good enough to give to charity and do good deeds, though that's not a bad thing, but get a load of this:  Even the Mafia, etc., does good things for their own. 

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