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Author Topic: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26  (Read 14307 times)

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Gina

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As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« on: December 02, 2012, 11:20:06 PM »


26 As it happened in the days of Noah, even so will it be also in the days of the Son of Man.

27 They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ship, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise, even as it happened in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;

29 but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from the sky, and destroyed them all.


Well, this is weighing on my mind.  Someone on the forum (I will not name names) pointed the bolded part out to me by PM.  I then discussed this with an attorney at my work (because he is an member/elder in the Mormon church - and he's super cool and easy to talk to).  I said, Dan, you know, someone told me on my bible study forum  what "they were given in marriage" means.  Gay marriage, since it is well established that only a woman can be given in marriage, but now with the passage of the gay marriage laws men are also given in marriage. 

He goes, yeah, and smiled.  I said, soooo you've known about this -- you heard about this before I mentioned it to you just now?  And he goes, yeah, for about 5 years now. 

I was blown away.  Again, I know this isn't something that Ray specifically taught or mentioned but it has been weighing on my mind a lot lately --- that while we can't know the exact day or the hour, Jesus gave signs of the times so we can be watching.  I know that Christ's words are spirit, but it must mean that in the days of Naoh in the land of Sodom, men were marrying each other and therefore being given in marriage.  (Not to harp on the gay marriage thing.)

What are your thoughts, BT family?
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indianabob

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 11:47:06 PM »

Hi Gina,
Perhaps I'm not following your point. Couldn't "they" refer to women being given to men in Sodom? Where does it imply that only men were living in Sodom at that time?

Inquiring minds want to know? Bob
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Gina

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2012, 02:22:40 AM »

I agree with you in that both men  and women were living in Sodom.   I think it's worth remarking that it says they were marrying and they were being given in marriage, meaning men were marrying men and women marrying women, as we have today with the passing of the gay marriage laws. 

At what other time in history, other than in the days of Noah, were women AND men given in marriage?  None other than this present age we're living in right now -- at least that all that I know of personally.  For sure in every other point in history women have been given in marriage to men and have married, they've ate and drank, made merry.

But Jesus is giving a sign of the times.  He's telling us what will be happening at the time of His appearing, and goes on to single out Noah, Lot and Sodom: as it was in the "days of Lot and in the days of Noah" so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man.  And I guess the reason He singled them out is because the TIMES were markedly different from any other time in history in that men were apparently marrying men and women were marrying women.

Thanks for responding. :)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 02:28:06 AM by Gina »
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2012, 02:31:00 AM »

I agree with you in that both men  and women were living in Sodom.   I think it's worth remarking that it says they were marrying and they were being given in marriage, meaning both men and women, as we have today with the passing of the gay marriage laws.  At what other time in history, other than in the days of Noah, were women AND men given in marriage?  None other than this present age we're living in right now -- at least that all that I know of personally.  For sure in every other point in history women have been given in marriage to men and have married, they've ate and drank, made merry.  Jesus is giving a sign of the times.  He's telling us what will be happening at that point in history at His appearing, just as it was in the "days of Lot and in the days of Noah" so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man.  The days of Lot and Noah were markedly different from any other time in history in that men were apparently marrying men and women were marrying women.

The greeks.

Homosexuality in ancient Greece
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Young man and teenager engaging in intercrural sex, fragment of a black-figure Attic cup, 550 BC–525 BC, Louvre
In classical antiquity, writers such as Herodotus,[1] Plato,[2] Xenophon,[3] Athenaeus[4] and many others explored aspects of same-sex love in ancient Greece. The most widespread and socially significant form of same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece was between adult men and pubescent or adolescent boys, known as pederasty (marriages in Ancient Greece between men and women were also age structured, with men in their 30s commonly taking wives in their early teens). Though homosexual relationships between adult men did exist, at least one member of each of these relationships flouted social conventions by assuming a passive sexual role. It is unclear how such relations between women were regarded in the general society, but examples do exist as far back as the time of Sappho.[5]
The ancient Greeks did not conceive of sexual orientation as a social identifier as Western societies have done for the past century. Greek society did not distinguish sexual desire or behavior by the gender of the participants, but rather by the role that each participant played in the sex act, that of active penetrator or passive penetrated.[5] This active/passive polarization corresponded with dominant and submissive social roles: the active (penetrative) role was associated with masculinity, higher social status, and adulthood, while the passive role was associated with femininity, lower social status, and youth.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece

Here is something else interesting;

http://www.randomhistory.com/history-of-gay-marriage.html

Apparently in egypt their is evidence of same sex marriage.

Ancient greece allowed it as described by plato.

The roman empire as well.

etc.. etc..

So same sex union is not limited to Sodom or modern day america. It's existed throughout history. There is nothing new under the sun.
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Gina

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2012, 02:36:50 AM »

I was at my favorite restaurant here (AnQi!  I love that place!) and I was eating dinner with my friend Gail and telling her everything I'm telling you and I could see this man out of the corner of my eye who was seated at the table next us with his female friend or wife--he was trying to pretend like he wasn't listening in on my conversation, but it was apparent he was enthralled.  After I finished the story, I went to pull my lipstick out of my purse and it slipped out of my hand and fell on the floor at my feet, and the guy (who was listening to my conversation) saw it, gets up, immediately grabs it and hands it back to me with this really warm smile -- "here you are, miss."  It was as if he was saying thank you to me, as if he was relieved to know that Jesus' appearing would be soon.
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Gina

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2012, 02:47:35 AM »

Well, Alex, thanks for that.  I imagine Jesus singled out Lot and Noah and Sodom for a reason.  I imagined that was the reason.   Oh well!  I guess there must be another reason that Jesus singled them out.

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cjwood

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2012, 02:56:40 AM »

perhaps Jesus singled out noah and lot (who came out of sodom), because God destroyed the peoples in those areas, due to their over abundant sins and lack of repentance.  not necessarily because of any kind of sexual sin per se, but because of the condition of the hearts of mankind at those times, which were evil experiences for His ultimate plan and purpose.

claudia
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Gina

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2012, 03:23:06 AM »

Yes, but just as Alex pointed out, there is nothing new under the sun.  There are other countries and places where they have had abundant sins (Egypt) and lack of repentance (Egypt).  I'm sure there sins were not worse then Egypt's sins.  Even Jesus said that as bad as they were, they would have repented if the works He did in one certain place were done there.  So that's not it.
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cjwood

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2012, 04:55:40 AM »

perhaps Jesus referred back to noah and lot/sodom, showing again the parable of the many (peoples concerned chiefly with the every day things of life) and the few (noah/lot concerned with the things of God).  and the phenomenal physical destruction by God of the areas where noah and lot lived, once noah and lot had been removed from those areas, showing God's righteous judgment.  and, just like in the days of noah and lot when people were busy, busy, busy getting married or being given in marriage, buying, selling, planting, eating, drinking, etc, etc, that mankind as a whole, will be caught by surprise when the Son of Man returns. 

just perhaps.

claudia

p.s.  i just don't see the Scriptures referenced as meaning gay/lesbian marrying or being given in marriage, as opposed to man/woman marriages.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 04:58:50 AM by cjwood »
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Gina

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 11:53:39 AM »

Thanks Claudia.  Thing is people have been busy throughout other times in history, and being busy isn't a sin -- that's not why Sodom was destroyed.   There was something going on in those days that was a total abomination and unique to any other time in history (is the conclusion that I personally come to) in the eyes of God such that God had to literally wipe them off the face of the earth.  It may not be the gay marriage issue but more that the people were mixing with those outside their faith?  I don't know.  Still searching for clues. 

Thanks for your responses though! :)
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levycarneiro

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 12:10:29 PM »

Hello Gina,

do you know if the Greek word for they here has a defined gender? For example, in English they can mean male or female but in Portuguese we can use Eles (they, usually all male or at least one male among many females) or Elas (they, all females). Maybe that answer can help finding the truth on the matter.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 12:20:45 PM by Levy »
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 12:21:48 PM »

Quote
they were given in marriage

Ray discussed this with me and he was not entirely sure but he seemed to draw the same conclusions Gina has drawn.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2012, 01:10:42 PM »

I'd always figured the 'signs of the times' would be that there are no 'signs of the times' for the world at large.  Everything is 'normal' and the appearance is unexpected for those not expecting such as Noah and Lot.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 01:22:04 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Deborah-Leigh

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2012, 01:49:18 PM »



A PERSON gets married or is given in marriage.

A person is a living HUMAN. Transcripts of Ray's Audio's and More Teachings / Re: Mobile Conference 2009

God is forming man into the very image of Himself. LOF3


God is not human! He’s not a person. The Hebrews didn’t even have a word for person. I looked up person in my E-Sword and there’s only half a dozen times that you find the word person (it’s always in italics), it was added by the translators. There’s no word in the Hebrew that should be translated Person.
Transcripts of Ray's Audio's and More Teachings / Re: Mobile Conference 2009

Christ's BODY IS SPIRITUAL, not physical. LOF4

People die.

Now can we understand that? Is that too difficult to know what a person is? The Bible has no such word, nowhere does it call God a person.  I don’t see any definition where God is called a person. Re: Mobile Conference 2009

In the resurrection after death, we don't marry because we become as the Angels of Heaven.

Can two individuals be one individual? No. Can two individuals be one God? Yes .http://bible-truths.com/audio/INHERITTHEKINGDOM.mp3

Can seven billion individuals be one God?  Yes!  With God, all things ARE possible!

....six hundred sixty-six." The number of the wild beast is not the number of "a" man, but rather the number of "man" or "mankind." LOFX111


Arc
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2012, 02:59:30 PM »

Quote
they married, they were given in marriage

Should have added it was both these sentences that made Ray suspect something. The first sentence should be enough to make a simple point.
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zvezda

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2012, 05:41:16 PM »

Mat 22:30   For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

God refers to the angels as male only, something to think about....
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eggi

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2012, 05:52:23 PM »

Hi everyone,

I liked Levy's thought about checking the Greek, so I did.

I don't claim any knowledge, but it seems to be correct how it's rendered in the King James (3rd person plural in the Greek) THEY WERE GIVEN...

gamisko: I give in marriage
Original Word: γαμίσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: gamisko
Phonetic Spelling: (gam-is'-ko)
Short Definition: I give in marriage
Definition: I give in marriage.

Other translations have something like this:

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

So, not GIVEN in marriage, but GIVING.

Luke 17:28 gives us more information, but non of these things are sins, are they? The verse mentions nothing about "given in marriage":
"Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;"

This, in my opinion, supports what Dave said: "Business as usual".

Matthew 22:30 speaks of both men and women:

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

My guess is that in Matthew 22:30 "neither marry" refers to men, and "nor are given in marriage" refers to women. Would the same be possible in Luke 17:28?

God bless you,
Eirik
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zvezda

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 06:17:46 PM »


So, not GIVEN in marriage, but GIVING.

Luke 17:28 gives us more information, but non of these things are sins, are they? The verse mentions nothing about "given in marriage":
"Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;"

This, in my opinion, supports what Dave said: "Business as usual".


but if this is just "Business as usual", simply saying "they married" is good enough to make the point, no need to say "given/giving in marriage", right?
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levycarneiro

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 06:24:08 PM »

Hi everyone,

I liked Levy's thought about checking the Greek, so I did.

I don't claim any knowledge, but it seems to be correct how it's rendered in the King James (3rd person plural in the Greek) THEY WERE GIVEN...

gamisko: I give in marriage
Original Word: γαμίσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: gamisko
Phonetic Spelling: (gam-is'-ko)
Short Definition: I give in marriage
Definition: I give in marriage.

Other translations have something like this:

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

So, not GIVEN in marriage, but GIVING.

Luke 17:28 gives us more information, but non of these things are sins, are they? The verse mentions nothing about "given in marriage":
"Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;"

This, in my opinion, supports what Dave said: "Business as usual".

Matthew 22:30 speaks of both men and women:

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

My guess is that in Matthew 22:30 "neither marry" refers to men, and "nor are given in marriage" refers to women. Would the same be possible in Luke 17:28?

God bless you,
Eirik

Nice, thanks Eirik. But I meant if the Greek word/suffix/etc used for they has any gender conotation.
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levycarneiro

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Re: As It Was In the Days of Noah - Luke 17:26
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 06:26:48 PM »

Mat 22:30   For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

God refers to the angels as male only, something to think about....

How do you know God only refers to them as male only?
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