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Not easy for the Elect, and also not easy for the many

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levycarneiro:
Hello BT family!

Christians that bash believers in Universal Reconciliation mistakenly say we teach that the wicked will have an "easy salvation", having lived and done all they wanted while in this life.

I understand the truth is: it's not going to be be easy for anybody, here or later. "For there is no respect of persons with God" (Romans 2:11).

Is it going to be harder for the many later? Is there anything in Ray's writings that expands on this question?


Thanks,
Levy

eggi:
Well, I think about this in the following way. Many people tend to think that their problems are unique, or that they suffer much more than others. This also includes Christians. But suffering is not unique to Christians, as I'm sure everyone agrees with. Neither is it unique to non-Christians. Many Muslims suffer much, for example the ones who were persecuted in Burma not so long ago. I don't pretend to know how much or in what way or what time God will make anyone suffer, but like you say Levy, God is not a respecter of persons. We all have our own walks which are unique to us. I think the reason for any suffering be it little or much, is to teach us to be merciful and loving so we can comfort others when they need love and comfort:

2 Corinthians 1-7: Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

I remember Ray mentioned this when he suffered with his disease. He said he believed he had this disease because God wanted him to experience it so that he could have a greater understanding and love for others who suffer. Amen!

God bless you,
Eirik

Kat:

Hi Levy,

Well I think that God is developing all of us into unique individual by means of different life situations. None of us will experience the exact same things and it will create and vast number of differing characters and personalities.

2Ti 2:20  But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.

So certainly some experience more pain and suffering, some are takers and users and give back very little. I believe there are those that enjoy adventures to get adrenalin rush and some that get their thrills when getting away with crimes or making people suffer. We know that there are all types, and though we don't like what the wicked do, but they all will be dealt with.

Isa 29:16  Surely you have things turned around!
       Shall the potter be esteemed as the clay;
       For shall the thing made say of him who made it,
       "He did not make me"?
       Or shall the thing formed say of him who formed it,
       "He has no understanding"?

There is no doubt we are what He has given us to be, but with whatever life experienced we have had, we will have to give an accounting for it all. So if you think about it, there is a very wide margin of experiences in this life, a person that died as a child will not have nearly as much to give account for as a person that lived many years. A small child that died would need to be comforted, cared for and taught. But some have lived lives of much debauchery and since we have to give account for every word, how much more so for atrocious wicked acts.

Mat 12:36  But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
v. 37  For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

I can see how some will require much more purging and cleansing than other. I believe it will all be customized to fit every persons precisely as needed and not all exactly the same.


--- Quote ---Is it going to be harder for the many later?
--- End quote ---

So it depends, for some it will certainly be hard, even tormenting to rid them of their debase minds, at least that's the way I see it.

Isa 11:1  There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse,
       And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
v. 2  The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon Him,
       The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
       The Spirit of counsel and might,
       The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.
v. 3  His delight is in the fear of the LORD,
       And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
       Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
v. 4  But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
       And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
       He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
       And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
v. 5  Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
       And faithfulness the belt of His waist.
v. 6  "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
       The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
       The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
       And a little child shall lead them.
v. 7  The cow and the bear shall graze;
       Their young ones shall lie down together;
       And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
v. 8  The nursing child shall play by the cobra's hole,
       And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper's den.
v. 9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
       For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
       As the waters cover the sea.


mercy, peace and love
Kat

Joel:
Jesus said in Matthew 12:42 " A greater than Solomon is here."
I have thought about what it must have been like to stand before Solomon as he ruled and judged Israel in his day.
He made some remarkable judgements, and the one concerning the two women that were fighting over the baby demonstrates the Wisdom he possessed as given unto him by God.
People were drawn to him from all over the world at that time. Some no doubt felt like they were wronged, no doubt the woman that lost the battle to the real mother must have felt the loss, even though the judgement was the right one.
The people of that day must have witnessed marvelous works of God through Solomon, but I don't see where he did any healing, opening blinded eyes, deaf ears, nor cast out any devils as our Lord and Saviour did.
 I can imagine what it was like to sit and listen to Jesus as he spoke, see how he moved, interacted with the crowds, and the individuals. Instructing Peter, James, John, and the rest of his disciples. How he settle disputes between them, and the judgements he hurled at the religious leaders of that day that sent them packing in anger and disgust with him.
I can also imagine how it could be at the judgement seat of Christ, to stand before him with him looking you straight in the eye, knowing he can tell a person everthing they ever did, both good, and evil.
That's enough to make every knee bow in my opinion. Only he knows what the judgement and the punishment is going to be, rather or not it will be many stripes, or few.
I don't know, but I can imagine how someone like Hitler would react to awake and find themselves facing their Creator. Could be very humbling, I can imagine.

Joel

levycarneiro:
Hey guys, thanks for everyone's comments so far!

1. I understand there will be shades of glory, some will be greater than others in the Kingdom:

"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matthew 11:11

So just for clarity's sake, and using a numbers analogy for clarity, in the Kingdom we will have glories such as 1, 50, 15, 200, 30, 5000 "points", or what have you. Again, this is just a metaphor to get my point across.


2. I understand there are unique individuals, each person is created and is living an experience of its own. For example, God created and formed Saul into Paul, in a way that He will not do in my life. So Paul is greater in the Kingdom of Heavens compared to myself (if I even enter the Kingdom), because God wanted this way, and thus created circumstances and life experiences, and hardships, and miracles, in his life in such a way he was exactly what God wanted.


3. I also understand that some do more evil now, and will need more correction later. God is just:

"...But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few {stripes}." Luke 12:48

So again using numbers to explain, in a scale where evil is negative (-) and good works and righteousness are positive (+), those doing evils to the scale of -20, -500, -10,000, will later in the LOF rightly receive the appropriate correction from God, there is, +20, +500, +10,000. Each one according to his works, right.


3. So my question is: is there any indication in the Scriptures that she, Jane Doe, as an individual, if she is one of the chosen, that will be easier for her now, than being saved/purified later? My point is: God is no respecter of persons, and so to my understanding it's kind of weird or unjust to think that God is giving us the privilege to be saved now in an easier form or way, than later. Know what I mean? The fact that God's chosen only a few and is saving us now is not the point (that's up to God), the point is can we honestly say to someone "repent now or the Judgment will be harder" or should we just say "repent now or you will face Judgment" ? While in fact, now is not easier for the Elect, it's just possible/feasible for the Elect because God does the works and the will.

Thanks family :)

Levy

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