> General Discussions
Not easy for the Elect, and also not easy for the many
onelovedread:
Kat
--- Quote --- It is a privilege to be of the elect, there is no doubt about it, but it is not our decision to be one or not, they are 'elected' by God to be in that position. So you can and should rejoice in the hope of being an elect, but we can take no credit or boost for what we have been given.
--- End quote ---
I just want to ask. Does the fact that we've been called mean that we're automatically part of the elect. And here I am specifically referring to the few that have been chosen
--- Quote ---a group of just a few being prepared to serve/help/rule in the kingdom to bring in the rest to salvation.
--- End quote ---
I didn't get the impression from Ray's teaching or from the Word that it was a foregone conclusion.
I know, Marques, I already hear you saying "Go back and read Ray's writings" lol
levycarneiro:
--- Quote from: Game Over on December 24, 2012, 10:14:53 AM ---haha, You know what, Levy. I think you're smart to keep this one in the back of your mind. I don't know if judgment on the many lasts 1 minute in the LOF for some (certainly Christ said that those who knew the Father's will and did not do it but began to beat the menservants,etc., would be receiving many lashes--in a mere minute? don't know), or if their judgment will last the equivalent of an entire lifetime as "an experience of evil" -- I mean how much experience can you ascertain in one minute? I guess when I think of the "day" of the Lord, then I don't think in terms of a literal "day" but in terms of an era. Paul was the worst sinner there was and yet he was hounded by a messenger of Satan to buffet him (but then again that was to keep him from getting too puffed up with the revelations he received -- as he was puffed up on the Road to Damascus, not because he was being judged or maybe it was because he was being judged, I don't know). Paul, when, confronted with a man in his church in Corinth who was committing incest, chided the Corinthians for in essence wrapping their warm loving arms around him and not judging him (by putting him out of their presence) to learn not to do those things and then after he learned he could be brought back. Would throwing a man like that out for a whole minute change his ways?
This is not to say that I'm any better than the man spoken of.
Even Jesus said:
Why do you stare from without at the speck in your brother's eye
I myself would not be too quick to throw the man committing incest out of the church -- considering the huge beam of timber in my own eye.
Maybe that's where the Corinthians were coming from, and Paul turned around and said, No! Uh-Uh! Get him out!
For a minute? I don't know. I just don't know.
If you find out the answer let me know.
Meantime, I'll just be over here trying to get this HUGE plank outta my own eye.
;)
--- End quote ---
Hello Gina,
you gave enough thoughts so my rambling of 1 minute in the LOF looks ridiculous (what it really is :)
I guess I was thinking of Paul's conversion in 1 minute (the light and all). But anyway God still judged Paul for still many years after that, so it would be unfair for God to perfect people in less time. I think the time contraints we experience now such as patience requires time for perfecting it, and such things like that, still applies (obviously) during the LOF.
I just don't get why the judgment is more intense during the LOF. There's no devil there if I'm not mistaken. And it seems unfair that God will be more severe on the many during the LOF compared to the Elect today, since God is the One that did the choosing, the enabling, etc.
But like I said this is probably not too important of a question, even not covered abundantly in Ray's papers it appears, so I'm fine for now knowing that there's no respect of persons with God, and we all (Elect or not) will be salted in with FIRE anyways (Mark 9:49).
God bless!
Gina:
It does seem unfair how God makes vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. But who can bring a charge against God?
The main thing I'm learning to do is not find fault with God for the way He operates (shall we receive good from God and not evil?) and just shut my mouth (can you tell how incredibly difficult that is for me?)
When the elect get to their "resting" place, it is my hope they'll be too relaxed to so much as point their finger at the many (me?) or the world. I would hate to have to turn around and bite it off. haha!
indianabob:
Hey Levy,
Simple answer to a valid question.
If the lake of fire is what we are experiencing now, in this life and if it is to be very similar for those who were not called, then the one thing I can imagine that would make it very tough on many would be a stubborn attitude and not being willing to accept correction without a fight, without resistance to the admonition of God.
Imagine a person who was very successful and took credit for their success due to all the hard work they put into it, to then be told that it was all vanity, all for nothing in the eyes of God. All their good works were as "filthy rags" to God.
Now that would BURN a persons view of themselves.
So my point is that it will be as tough as the individual makes it on themselves when they are forced to look in the mirror of their past life.
Please comment, Indiana bob
levycarneiro:
--- Quote from: indianabob on December 24, 2012, 08:08:41 PM ---Hey Levy,
Simple answer to a valid question.
If the lake of fire is what we are experiencing now, in this life and if it is to be very similar for those who were not called, then the one thing I can imagine that would make it very tough on many would be a stubborn attitude and not being willing to accept correction without a fight, without resistance to the admonition of God.
Imagine a person who was very successful and took credit for their success due to all the hard work they put into it, to then be told that it was all vanity, all for nothing in the eyes of God. All their good works were as "filthy rags" to God.
Now that would BURN a persons view of themselves.
So my point is that it will be as tough as the individual makes it on themselves when they are forced to look in the mirror of their past life.
Please comment, Indiana bob
--- End quote ---
Hello my friend,
I see your point, regarding the many being of a stubborn attitude during their lake of fire. But don't we have the same now...
"And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in {your} mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled {in...: or, by your mind in}" Colossians 1:21
...prior to God operating in us the opening of our understanding with His Spirit?
It'll be certainly though for the many during their lake of fire, at least for many christians, because they thought they would be saved by then. They will be in "shock". But this hardship we are experiencing now too, we are dying to our false religion of carnal religious works and coming into the light of our Lord's rest where the work is His not ours.
Just ramblings...
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