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Jesus raised and the resurrection

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se7en:
Hiya all,

Been studying this particular topic recently. Samson posted a really good thread here http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12622.msg110729.html#msg110729 Where he was putting Ray's comments together and talking about it.

This is referring to the sheep and goats seperation it talks about in Matt 25:31-46.

Those that go into eonian chastisement.... Since they have been ressurected into their mortal bodies again, does this mean they will die... physically again? This is the second death?

The called out ones... the body of Christ, right now, currently is being judged, and this is our second death, then we die physically. And then resurrected into our spiritual glorified body.

But for those that do not believe, they die physically first, then get ressurected into a physical body to go through eonian chastisement and die a second time.... physically?

I just want to make sure i'm understanding.  I appreciate you guys!

Kat:

Hi se7en,


--- Quote ---But for those that do not believe, they die physically first, then get resurrected into a physical body to go through eonian chastisement and die a second time.... physically?
--- End quote ---

No, there is only "once" to have a physical death and then the resurrection of the dead and "judgment" and give an accounting of all then have done in their life.

Heb 9:27  And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,

The people that are in the first resurrection have died to self through judgment, as you said, but the rest of mankind have not and after the resurrection from the dead must still go through this judgment - the second death, which is a 'spiritual' death, a death to self.

This is from the article 16 E. 'Hades and the Second Death.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm -----------------------------------------------

"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God: and the books were opened, and another book was opened which is the books of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:12).

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (Rev. 20:13-14).

When the "dead... stand," we are being presented with a resurrection from the dead. For this is exactly what resurrection means (anastasis in Greek means, "to stand up again"--See Strong's #386 translated 'resurrection'). It is in resurrection that "the dead... stand" before God. And yes, since we know Revelation is a book of spiritual symbols, we would be correct in stating that it is "the SPIRITUALLY dead" who are standing before God. Aspects of this Judgment:

[1] "the dead, small and great stand [resurrected] before God"

[2] they are judged according to the books, according to their works

[3] "the sea [the sea of wicked humanity] give up its [spiritually] dead"

[4] this includes "every man" [Gk: 'each one or 'every one' or 'every person']

[5] "death [the cause] and hell [the realm] are cast into the lake of fire"

[6] and those "not found in the Book of Life were cast into the Lake of Fire"

[7] this "Lake of Fire is the Second Death"

The Christian orthodox teaching on the "Last Judgment" is a pagan fabrication which has been deceiving Christians by the billions for two thousands years. We will now look closer at just what this lake of fire/second death is all about.

As we have said many times, there is Judgment for both the chosen Elect now and the unbelieving wicked in the resurrection to Judgment:

"For if we would judge ourselves [now, in this life], we should not be judged [with the world later]. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned [judged] with the world [at the resurrection to Judgment]" (I Cor. 11:31-32).

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (I Pet. 4:17-18).

Well we see where they appear in Paul's statement that they will be "...condemned [judged] with the world."

And this is at the Great White Throne Judgment in the resurrection to Judgment, in the lake of fire/second death.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat

se7en:
Thanks Kat! That is was a spiritual death of self is exactly what I was thinking but I wanted to make sure.

To inlcude the thread that Samson had posted http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,12622.msg110729.html#msg110729

Let me know if i'm picturing this accurately....

When Jesus comes back, the church gets resurrected. Some with spiritual glorified bodies (the sheep) others with physical bodies (goats). What happens to the physical bodies of the goats once they've gone through the spiritual fire? Will their physical bodies die again? And then they get resurrected with all the unbelievers at the consumation in their spiritual bodies?

Or is it like this....

when Jesus comes back, the church gets vivified into spiritualy glorified bodies, everyone else just "stands up" into regular physical bodies for eonian chastisement. Once they've learned righteiousness, their physical bodies will die...again?  And they get vivified at the consumation?

Or was that the discussion of the thread, to figure that part out?  Thanks everyone!

se7en:
I'm starting to remember the article where Ray was talking about the feasts. the firstfruit, christ's vivication which has already happened. Then the church during the second vivication. and Everyone else gets vivified at the consumation.

Does this mean that "everyone else" will not wake up in a physical body again, they stay dead until vivified at the consumation? If that's the case. When would they have gotten the chance to be judged and taught rightiousness?

Kat:

Hi se7en,

My understanding is that when Christ returns His church (not the entire Christian church) - the chosen/elect/sheep will be resurrected and vivified to glorious spiritual bodies and meet Christ in the air, first the dead then those still alive immediately after.

1Th 4:16  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
v.17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

The rest of the dead, which include the Christian church - Babylon and all other faiths and atheists and babies, everybody not in the first resurrection, these are the goats. They will be resurrected back to physical life. Now how exactly that resurrection transpires is not revealed, will they just appear on earth, don't know.


--- Quote ---What happens to the physical bodies of the goats once they've gone through the spiritual fire?
--- End quote ---


The Scripture speaks of "once to die" (Heb 9:27), so I can't see them having to die a physical death again, spiritual second death, yes, but not physically. If you think how it happens with the elect that are still alive when Christ returns, that might give us an idea of how it could happen in the next age as well.

1Co 15:52  in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

There will be a "change" that will take place, those alive physically will go from physical to spiritual "in the twinkling of an eye." So it seems like a rather instantaneous transformation. So will that happen in the next age as each person reach a certain degree of readiness or all together at the end, when God is All in all? Don't know.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

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