Many called/few chosen

[rocky]

Mat 8:11  And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 8:12  But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Seems this is saying "many" will enter Kingdom in verse 11 (i think it is talking about Gentiles grafted in), as if the many thrown out (Israelites) will be replaced by many Gentiles. 

Just seems weird to me that many is used verse 11. 

Any ideas on why many is used??

[rocky]

This also confuses me, any ideas??

1Co 12:12  For just as the human body is one and yet has many parts, and all its parts, many as they are, constitute but one body, so it is with the Church of Christ.

1Co 12:20  But, as a matter of fact, there are many parts and but one body.

1Co 12:27  As for you, you are the body of Christ, and individually you are members of it.


thanks

[buddyjc]

In contrast between Gentiles and Israel, it seems the word 'many' would be appropriate in Matt. 8:11. 

Conerning the 'body of Christ.'  This is a group of believers, so naturally there would be 'many' parts. 

Brian

[rocky]

Maybe I am not interpreting many called few chosen correctly.  It seems the many called are the Israelites, but because they stumbled on the rock/Christ, only a few are chosen (remnant) to live by faith.  Because of the majority lack of faith, they were cut off, and the kingdom of  was opened to the Gentiles. 

Now i'm thinking, of the Gentiles, many are also called, but few chosen.  Few who are broken and rely on Christ for our life, by faith.  But yet, the body of Christ is many members, not a few.  that is what i am struggling with.  Romans  states the fullness of Gentiles has to come into effect, is this fullness just a few or many???

hope this makes sense. 

Thanks to all the replies so far.   

[buddyjc]

I don't know if this will help, but here goes.  We must understand that the 'physical' things of the O.T. are 'types' or 'examples' [Gr. 'tupos'; 'a die (as struck)' or 'stamp'] to what we find in the N.T.  Just as Israel was called out of the nations of the world, the church is called out of the world.  The 'remnant' were called out of Israel, just as the 'elect' are called out of the church. 

1Co 10:6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The 'elect' are those in the 'body of Christ.'  The church, or the 'called' are still in Babylon just as the 'many' of Israel stayed in Babylon.  We are contrasting physical things with spiritual.  This does not mean that if you are a Jew you cannot be of the elect.  Peter was a Jew, but was of the elect. 

Hope this helps.

Brian

[rocky]

I don't know if this will help, but here goes.  We must understand that the 'physical' things of the O.T. are 'types' or 'examples' [Gr. 'tupos'; 'a die (as struck)' or 'stamp'] to what we find in the N.T.  Just as Israel was called out of the nations of the world, the church is called out of the world.  The 'remnant' were called out of Israel, just as the 'elect' are called out of the church. 

1Co 10:6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The 'elect' are those in the 'body of Christ.'  The church, or the 'called' are still in Babylon just as the 'many' of Israel stayed in Babylon.  We are contrasting physical things with spiritual.  This does not mean that if you are a Jew you cannot be of the elect.  Peter was a Jew, but was of the elect. 

Hope this helps.

Brian

thanx, that helps, just seems to me the few who are called out of babylon, are called "many" members of the body of Christ.

[jerreye]

I don't know if this will help, but here goes.  We must understand that the 'physical' things of the O.T. are 'types' or 'examples' [Gr. 'tupos'; 'a die (as struck)' or 'stamp'] to what we find in the N.T.  Just as Israel was called out of the nations of the world, the church is called out of the world.  The 'remnant' were called out of Israel, just as the 'elect' are called out of the church. 

1Co 10:6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The 'elect' are those in the 'body of Christ.'  The church, or the 'called' are still in Babylon just as the 'many' of Israel stayed in Babylon.  We are contrasting physical things with spiritual.  This does not mean that if you are a Jew you cannot be of the elect.  Peter was a Jew, but was of the elect. 

Hope this helps.

Brian

Nice answer, Brian. I am wondering if you can perhaps give me your take on what "...when the fullness of the gentiles come in" means to you? Is this talking about every last literal gentile (non literal jews) coming into God's Kingdom? It states that all Israel shall be saved, but only AFTER the fullness of the gentiles come in...Any insight?

Cheers,
Jeremy

[Joey Porter]

Here are a couple passages to consider when discussing this:

Matthew 19
30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

And again:

Matthew 20
8"When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, 'Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.'

9"The workers who were hired about the eleventh hour came and each received a denarius. 10So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12'These men who were hired last worked only one hour,' they said, 'and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.'

13"But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? 14Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?'

16"So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

Perhaps the many who come from the east and the west will be the chosen plus the heathens and the wicked - Hitler, Bin Laden, etc.  Perhaps all of the wicked will find their way into the kingdom even before the called, which will, of course, cast them into even more torment.  I think of this passage:

John 9
7"Go," he told him, "wash in the Pool of Siloam" (this word means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.

8His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, "Isn't this the same man who used to sit and beg?"

...10"How then were your eyes opened?" they demanded. 

It kind of reminds me of what the called might say if they saw Hitler in the kingdom while they themselves are still on the outside.  "Isn't this Hitler, then man who slaughtered millions of people?  How did his eyes become opened?"

Also remember from Ezekiel chapter 16.  I won't post the whole thing here, but it basically talks about how Sodom will be restored before Jerusalem will be restored, because Jerusalem's sins were worse than Sodom's!  So, if we take earthly Jerusalem to represent the called, then it does seem as though the heathen will enter the kingdom before the called.  Remember another thing that Jesus said:

Matthew 10
14If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

So, perhaps the called, who will refuse to accept the truth about their belief in false doctrines and traditions of men, perhaps they will be judged in a manner that will prevent them from entering until after all of the most vile heathens. 

So, if we keep in mind that the first will be last and the last will be first (the chosen humble themselves just as Christ did, therefore they are considered the last, while the called, full of self righteousness, exalt themselves over everyone and so they are considered first) it seems as though the order of kingdom entrance will be:  Chosen, heathen, called. 

Therefore, there will be many in the kingdom while the called are still looking in from the outside.

Just a thought.

[Sorin]

Joey Porter, I like that. Very nice insight, and I do believe you're right. I can just see Dr. James Kennedy, and John Hagee and other hellmongers wailing and gnashing their teeth when Hitler is in The Kingdom before them. 

[Joey Porter]

Joey Porter, I like that. Very nice insight, and I do believe you're right. I can just see Dr. James Kennedy, and John Hagee and other hellmongers wailing and gnashing their teeth when Hitler is in The Kingdom before them. 

Well, if they don't repent of their slanderous teachings then they'll most likely be on the outside looking in.  But we must remember not to get too overjoyed about that, or else we may end up with them on the outside!

[jerreye]

Very sobering thoughts, Joey... There shall be weeping (in sorrow) and gnashing of teeth (in anger) when they see the Hitlers walk in before them. Talk about a rude-awakening! It makes me look in the mirror and judge myself some more!

That just sobered me right up...

[Joey Porter]

Very sobering thoughts, Joey... There shall be weeping (in sorrow) and gnashing of teeth (in anger) when they see the Hitlers walk in before them. Talk about a rude-awakening! It makes me look in the mirror and judge myself some more!

That just sobered me right up...

I believe that's the key to the whole bible and to God's entire plan of operation.  To get us to look inside ourselves.  Yes, we're supposed to judge those inside the house of God, but we had better keep our primary focus on ourselves, because if we don't keep ourselves in check, we won't be able to justly judge our brother. 

We must understand that we all have the ability to be like Cain, and kill our brother.  We must guard against becoming like Saul, and the older brother of the prodigal son.  We must live daily like the tax collector, praying in the temple.  He was more concerned with his own faults, while the pharisee was looking at the faults of the tax collector.

Again, this isn't to say that we should not be examining the hearts and intents of our fellow Christians.  Remember, we must remove the plank from our eye so that we can help our brother dislodge his spec (plank).  But I believe this process of removing our plank is a daily process, a way of life.  If we think we've had our plank removed once and for all, then we had better take heed, for:

1 Corinthians 10
12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

[Sorin]

Joey Porter, I like that. Very nice insight, and I do believe you're right. I can just see Dr. James Kennedy, and John Hagee and other hellmongers wailing and gnashing their teeth when Hitler is in The Kingdom before them. 

Well, if they don't repent of their slanderous teachings then they'll most likely be on the outside looking in.  But we must remember not to get too overjoyed about that, or else we may end up with them on the outside!

Right you are Joey.

[orion77]

Very sobering thoughts, Joey... There shall be weeping (in sorrow) and gnashing of teeth (in anger) when they see the Hitlers walk in before them. Talk about a rude-awakening! It makes me look in the mirror and judge myself some more!

That just sobered me right up...

I believe that's the key to the whole bible and to God's entire plan of operation.  To get us to look inside ourselves.  Yes, we're supposed to judge those inside the house of God, but we had better keep our primary focus on ourselves, because if we don't keep ourselves in check, we won't be able to justly judge our brother. 

We must understand that we all have the ability to be like Cain, and kill our brother.  We must guard against becoming like Saul, and the older brother of the prodigal son.  We must live daily like the tax collector, praying in the temple.  He was more concerned with his own faults, while the pharisee was looking at the faults of the tax collector.

Again, this isn't to say that we should not be examining the hearts and intents of our fellow Christians.  Remember, we must remove the plank from our eye so that we can help our brother dislodge his spec (plank).  But I believe this process of removing our plank is a daily process, a way of life.  If we think we've had our plank removed once and for all, then we had better take heed, for:

1 Corinthians 10
12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

A big Amen to that!!  Definetly be watchful and take heed.

Gary