The "saviors"

[hillsbororiver]

I ran across a couple of verses from the OT that appear to be prophesying the elect as part of the salvation process in the age to come.

Neh 9:27  Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviors, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

Oba 1:21  And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

I also was struck by "thy manifold mercies" which is underlined in Hosea giving us a glimpse into the mind of God, the exact opposite of what is being taught in the mainstream denominations.

Hos 6:6  For I desired mercy and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Peace,

Joe

[Kat]

Hi Joe,

That is such an amazing thought, that Christ is preparing those few in this world to reign with Him as saviors of the rest of the world.   

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6142.0.html -------

That's the gospel.  Jesus Christ was appointed for that thing, to be the judge of the quick and the dead and as Christ is so are we.  Guess what?  We are to judge the world.  Well of course, we are going to rule them with a rod of iron.  That is how we are going to start out in the kingdom of God on this earth, over the nations of the world, in what's called the millennium or the thousand year reign. 

Rom 8:22  And we know that the whole creation groans and travails in pain together until now.

The whole world.  If you have any doubts about that, just turn on the evening news.  If it's not the weather; the hurricanes, the earthquakes, then it's wars and terrorist.  Now they are burning down Paris, for eight days straight.  This is always been the condition of the world.  They say the history of mankind is a chronicle of wars.  Man is either in war, coming out of war or preparing for the next war.

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creation waits...

This whole world, this whole creation is groaning and travailing in pain.  Is waiting for what?

Rom 8:19 ...for the manifestation of the sons of God.

That's us, the sons of God or the kingdom of God.  They are the heavens in which the Spirit of God dwells and will rule the nations.

Obadiah 1:21  And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mountain of Esau (this is them); and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.

The "saviors" are going to rule from mount Zion, not over there in that ugly swill of a city called Jerusalem.  But from spiritual mount Zion.  He is going to rule "them," Esau is them, "and the kingdom shall be the Lord's."  What kingdom?  The kingdom of what, in this context?  Kingdom of saviors, plural saviors.  Who are these saviors?  That's us, we're saviors.  Well this sounds a little odd, I mean we're saying we're going to be the saviors of the world.  Well we do have a leader though, King of kings, Lord of lords, Savior of saviors and Son of sons.  We're sons right, He's the Son of the sons.  He will always have a name superior to every other one.
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It would be a truely marvelous thing to have a part in actually teaching the rest of humanity the knowledge of the Truth and seeing their eyes opened.  I think there will be a much joy in heaven as the many are brought to repentance.

Luk 15:10  Likewise, I say to you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Deborah-Leigh]

Joshua 1 : 6 Be strong, confident and of good courage, for you shall cause this people to inherit the land which I swore to their fathers to give them.

Heb 11 : 6 But without faith it is impossible....

John 6 : 63 It is The Spirit Who gives life; the flesh conveys no benefit whatever. The words that I have been speaking to you are Spirit and Life.

Arc.

[hillsbororiver]

Thank you Kat and Arc,

Those were great additions to this topic, as we can see from the following the disciples were not yet ready to truly be "saviors" that they and the elect eventually will be, the spirit may have been willing but their flesh was still weak (vengeful and no mercy).

Luk 9:52  And sent messengers before his face: and they went and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.

Luk 9:53  And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

Luk 9:54  And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elijah did?

Luk 9:55  But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

Luk 9:56  For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Martinez]

Hey Joe.

Jesus expect us to follow in His foot steps which is why He left admonishions for us by the account of His own life and ministry.
Whatever was true of Him will be true of us also.

Mat 13:54  And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

When you read Mathew, Mark, Luke and John as an unconverted disciples like the disciples its one set of instructions and when we are converted another set of instructions.

Could Jesus be the word of God?



I have seen heaps of stuff in the bible about the elect as well as heaps of stuff about the false church.

[hillsbororiver]

Yes Martinez,

We see very little with carnal eyes but as the Lord begins to open our eyes and ears the scriptures come alive where we see things or should I say understand things that were previously hidden from us.

Eze 12:2  Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Mat 13:16  But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

It wasn't until after Pentecost that even the disciples understood the following and the churches do not "see" it even today;

Psa 136:26  O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth forever.

Mic 7:18  Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger forever, because he delighteth in mercy.

Peace,

Joe

[bobf]

I ran across a couple of verses from the OT that appear to be prophesying the elect as part of the salvation process in the age to come.

Here's some more (I think)...

Isaiah 66:16  For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.... 18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. 20  And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

The thee's, thy's, thou's in this passage refer to the City of God (verses 11,14) which is God's elect (Rev 21:2)

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. 2  For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. 3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. 4 Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side. 5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.

Isaiah 60:11 Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

Isaiah 60:14  The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

[bobf]

The "saviors" are going to rule from mount Zion, not over there in that ugly swill of a city called Jerusalem.  But from spiritual mount Zion.  He is going to rule "them," Esau is them...

I think this is forshadowed in the blessings of Jacob AND ESAU...Esau's blessings ends up good:

Genesis 27:37 And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son? 38  And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept. 39 And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness* of the earth, and of the dew* of heaven from above; 40 And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

*many translations say "AWAY from the fatness of the earth and AWAY from the dew of heaven..."

Isaac blessed BOTH of them concerning things to come!

Hebrews 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

[hillsbororiver]

Hi Bob,

It has been too long since you last posted! It is great to see you here, you provided some excellent witnesses, the prophecy of Isaiah 60:1-5 brought this thought to mind, through God given faith we begin to see a glimpse of the Light which is Christ. If (and when) this seed of faith begins to grow we continually seek more of His Light up until the "change" at resurrection when the elect also become the Light for;

1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Psa 36:9  For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.

Joh 8:12  Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh 11:9  Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

The following does have some application for the here and now but how much more will it apply once one becomes "like Him?" 

Mat 5:14  Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.

See the Light, follow the Light, become the Light!

His Peace to you,

Joe

[hillsbororiver]

Here is an interesting verse that I have read over many times and not paid much attention to until I read it in other translations, this is how the KJV has it;

Col 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What is it saying? What is the message? Consulting other bibles in regard to this verse paints a much clearer (and even surprising) picture.

Rotherham's

Col 1:24 Now I am rejoicing in sufferings on your behalf, and am filling up the things that lack of the tribulations of the Christ in my flesh. In behalf of his body, which is the assembly.

NIV

Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.

Amplified

Col 1:24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed [on our part] of Christ's afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church.

Young's Literal Translation

Col 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and do fill up the things lacking of the tribulations of the Christ in my flesh for his body, which is the assembly,

Could this be true? Are we reading that there is more to salvation process than what the churches teach? I remember being taught that it was finished at the cross, when we read what Paul wrote above and the scriptures below it seems that the cross is where the salvation process really began rather than ended!

The suffering one has as a member of the body of Christ is also a promise for the glory of the resurrection (or change) and the high honor of becoming a "savior" to those not among elect. 

Heb 11:39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Heb 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

1Pe 2:21  For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

1Pe 4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

When we look at what Christ experienced in His Body, through His life as a man in the flesh on this earth we can also see this as a prophecy for what His present Body on this earth will experience (perhaps not physically but certainly mentally and spiritually) because after all we are the body of Christ! This really is an awesome thing to contemplate and it's implications have become more profound to me of late, it used to be little more than a catch phrase when I would read it but now it has taken on a much deeper meaning.

KJV

1Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

Rotherham's

1Cor 12:12 For just as the body is one, and yet hath many members but all the members of the body though many are one body. So also the Christ;

NIV

1 Cor 12:12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

[Deborah-Leigh]

That is a thought provoking view Joe...You observe quote : When we look at what Christ experienced in His Body, through His life as a man in the flesh on this earth we can also see this as a prophecy for what His present Body on this earth will experience (perhaps not physically but certainly mentally and spiritually) unquote.....It makes sense because quote:

[A] "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the Last Adam [Jesus Christ] was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and afterward that which is SPIRITUAL" (I Cor. 15:45-46).

"It is sown [first] a NATURAL BODY [a physical body which dies]; it is raised [afterward] a SPIRITUAL BODY [which is made immortal and never dies]..." (I Cor. 15:44).

[C] "Who shall change our [first] VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto His [afterward] GLORIOUS BODY..." (Phil. 3:21).

[D] "If I have told you EARTHLY things [first], and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of HEAVENLY [spiritual] things [afterward]?" (John 3:12).

The sequence of God's plan of salvation for mankind is most important—First is the physical and then comes the spiritual. http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

We are in the spiritual realm as we suffer spiritual adversity, persecutions and earth shattering events that are taking place in our lives. This need not be literally seen to be felt or experienced!

Peace to you brother

Arcturus

[lilitalienboi16]

So much wisdom in this thread. This is one of my favorite topics! The saviors of Obadiah, the elect of God!

What a brilliant exchange, joe and arc! Thank you both for sharing, I was reminded of many things I have let slip away to time.

[lilitalienboi16]

Oba 1:21  And saviors shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.

Here are some more versus to add to this list;

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

I Peter 2:9 "but ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of Him who hath called you out of darkness into His marvelous light."

Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city [HOLY NATION] that is set on a hill cannot be hid.[/color]

And Psalm 2 seems to directly correlate to the saviours upon the mount.

Psalms 2 1-9 "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord,
and against His anointed, saying, Let us break THEIR bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh; the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, thou art my son: this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. thou shalt break them with a rod of iron: thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

I'll find some more!

[levycarneiro]

Adding more to the Pot

Hebrews 12
22 But you have come to mount Zion, and the city of the living God, celestial Jerusalem, and to ten thousand messengers,
23 to a universal convocation, and to the ecclesia of the firstborn, registered in the heavens, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the just perfected,
24 and to Jesus, the Mediator of a fresh covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling which is speaking better than Abel.

Jude 1
14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesies to these also, saying, "Lo! the Lord came among ten thousand of His saints,

Deuteronomy 33
2 when he said: Yahweh came from Sinai, And He arose from Seir for them. He shone from Mount Paran, And He arrived with some from myriads of the holy ones. At His right are warriors who are His.
3 Indeed, He is cherishing the wikinsmen. All the holy ones are in Your hand. And they are huddled at Your feet. Each obtains something from Your words.