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[Samson]

Hi Forum,

Just thought I'd add my two cents to this Medical Profession discussion(Here We go again). I don't claim to know everything about Medicine, after all, I'm not a Physician. However, after my recent experience with my Quadriceps Tendon rupture and it's subsequent repair and continually rehabilitation, I'm looking at Medically based issues in a more holistic manner. It behooves us to examine information and material related to Our personal health issues, not taking for granted what Orthodox medicine or Alternative medicine has to say. In making an intelligent choice in determining what path We take in this regard, We don't want to assume that the various approaches We choose have thorough knowledge of every detail affecting Our health. Unfortunately, like in everything else, Politics, Money, insurance policies, greed and imperfect Humans are involved in the claims from both the Orthodox & Alternative approaches. The Orthopedic Group that worked with Me have, so far, been pretty good in working with Me both financially and surgically. Having no Medical Coverage changed their approach considerably. Other issues in my Knee were not addressed, therapy is being performed by myself, drugs were issued at a minimum, etc. Dr. Friedman mentioned that my Anterior Cruciate Ligament & my Meniscus Pad had issues, but were old injuries that healed, but not exactly the way the should, but He wasn't going to address them, only focusing on the reconstruction & reattachment of my Tendon. If I had medical insurance, He would likely have fiddled around with these other issues which undoubtedly would have greatly added to the cost. For His up front approach and clearly explaining everything and the unexpected extended time He spent on the Surgery, because the Tendon had crawled up my leg and He had to manipulate towards my Knee, the projected time of the surgery was doubled. This leads Me to inform all of you that although I appreciate Dr. Friedman's hard work & effort, The MRI was misleading and causing Him to believe my Tendon was still partially attached and not ruptured, so there's a prime example of a procedure that is lacking-Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI).

Also, the FDA plays a politically motivated part in approving certain drugs. If no money is going to be made by the Pharmaceutical industry, their unlikely to approve it, even if the particular item has the ability to help individuals. DMSO(Dimethyl sulfate) is a prime example. The FDA couldn't find anything wrong with it, but it's very inexpensive to make and has limited income potential. Read the works of Dr. Stanley Jacob for details.

When a medical issue involves Bones, Tendons, Ligaments, Cartilage and the repairing of these, I give Orthodoxy a thumbs up. Other areas involving diseases and illnesses, I'd like to examine from a wider perspective which includes supplementation, not to an excess, but more as a preventive measure to build the immune system. Antibiotics and pain killers have their good use, but as a last resort when natural means have failed.

Thanks, Samson.

[Gina]

Dennis asked for prayers and look what happens.  We just can't help ourselves.  I'm sure we all just want the best for you.  My prayer is that regardless of what you choose to do, you feel better and are relieved of the stress. 

Another thought, but this comes from a Dr. Christine Salter, M.D., board certified in family medicine who talks with John Dinsley, author of "Charcoal Remedies" (video link below).

This isn't for everyone.   I just find it fascinating and I wanted to share.  If you disagree with it, that's okay.  I'm not forcing anyone to try this.  It's just a suggestion.  I'm not a doctor.  I can't give advice, only offer suggestions. 

I'm not prideful or arrogant against doctors.  I just have yet to see one conventionally trained western medical doctor help anyone in my immediate family who was seriously ill.  But that's not their fault entirely.  God just hasn't given them the means to heal everyone all the time.

(It's interesting to note that many of the pharmaceutical drugs that are in use got their start from plants and shrubs and herbs.  (Think of that well-known phrase, Let food be thy medicine.)  And then there's that phrase: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  So yes, people like me are looking for that preventative measure to keep us out of the doctor's office.  But I would never tell anyone to stay away from doctors.  Steger and Mercola, while not my favorite doctors, are doctors-- they're just not the kind that people are most familiar with.  And we tend to go with people and things that are most familiar to us even though those people and things may not be the answer.)

I suppose if anyone is of the opinion that a poultice of activated charcoal (as mentioned in the video below) applied to the skin to draw out toxins is strange and ineffectual, I can only imagine that same person would have laughed at Jesus for spitting on the ground to make a mud pack to put on the blind man's eyes, which gave him sight.  Did Jesus really and truly do that?  Do you believe that Jesus did that and that man's sight was restored?  I do.

So without further ado, here's to mud in your eye! :-D

http://vimeo.com/24219777


( Mods, feel free to delete this if you feel it's inappropriate. )

(Michael, Levy, Samson I thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts.  Michael, not to harp, but I am one who is not in agreement with megadoses of C -- having tried that myself only to wind up sicker than a dog one year with cracked ribs from coughing.  We look at a plant or an herb, but we don't find megadoses of a single solitary nutrient in them.  What we do find, are lots of different nutrients all working synergistically.  And even then that plant can't stand up to everything and anything -- and will eventually die.   My thing is:  proper order, proper balance is the key.  I know you mean well, and I'm sure you have your reasons, but I respectfully disagree -- even though you weren't speaking to me specifically.  Thank you for your contribution regardless! )

[cjwood]

i have been staying with my momma (86 yrs old) in the hospital for 8-9 hrs for the past 3 days.  (i have the day shift. 2 of my other sisters have the night shift) my mom had a TIA on new year's eve, then a stroke on new year's day.  she is doing much better.  but, i wanted to say in total support of alex, that the medical profession IS a vehicle our Father Creator works through.  for His purpose.  after watching the ER nurses and physicians work with my mom, and the MRI, and echocardiagram, and ultrasound, and chest xray (yes, i am well aware of the radiation), AND the blood pressure medication, tylenol, and coumadin (small blood clot in groin).  yes, prescription drugs.  but drugs that our Lord has made available as a vehicle to heip my momma.  i know also that she has never had heart and vascular problems before in her life.  and this is because her Creator caused her to live a life eating healthy foods, no tobacco, and no alcohol.  so now, her choices then, are working synergistically with the medications.  each of our lives present different paths to where God is leading us.  judgement has no place.

claudia

[Michael]

God is/has created circumstances in Alex's life that are currently leading him towards a career in the medical field.

God is/has created circumstances in my life that currently lead me away from the medical field...........until I start bleeding from my ears that is, lol.

Who am I to argue?
Question? Yes. I do question my own path all of the time. I also question a lot of what I find concerning alt. therapies and try to find fact based information to back up such ideas.
Alex is correct, there is a lot of non fact based information out there. But here again, for those that follow such advice, God has created circumstances that lead them that way. I'm not saying we should not try and point them in another direction though.

In my post to Alex I wished him all the best in pursuing that field and I truly meant that.

Do to the difficulty in communication through forums, it sounded as if Alex poo - poo'd the entire alternative medical approach. In my response, I think Alex may have thought I did the same concerning the medical establishment. I think neither is true.
My posting of the Vitamin C article was primarily for Alex to see that there are fact bases studies, in what could be considered an alternative therapy and that he may want to reconsider what I thought was his viewpoint..... that all alt. therapies are quackery.

Vitamin C therapy has been studied by the Orthomolecular Medical establishment.
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/index.shtml#chart
"Orthomolecular medicine is defined as the therapeutic use of substances that occur naturally in the body. Originally defined in the context of treating and preventing psychiatric diseases, the intent of orthomolecular therapy is to provide the optimal molecular environment for the brain and other tissues by altering the intake of nutrients such as vitamins (and their metabolites), minerals, trace elements, macronutrients, as well as other naturally occurring metabolically active substances."

If anyone has time to kill, or an inquisitive mind concerning this type of therapy, there is an archive of journals available to read here,
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/index.shtml#chart

Gina,
I'm sorry that megadose C did not help. There is some suggestion by the Orthomolecular group that if a certain amount of C does not help, take more. There is a paper or article somewhere called, '100 gram, (100,000 mg) cold'. If I can find it.... (Not what it was called, but the information is contained here, http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm
Vitamin C does not work for everything, but the research shows it will work for a lot, either on it's own or in synergy with other nutrients. Something else to keep in mind, not all C is created equal. Unfortunatly, not all retailers are honorable. Remember the melamine in dog food issue?
I do understand though why you do not believe in megadosing with C.
(BTW, I did mention previously that I experimented on myself with high dose C and it did indeed work. But as you've mentioned, we are all different).


Claudia,
The nurses that helped my Mom were great, all of them. The Doctors were ok, but they all seemed not to have the time to answer questions, or they answered as they quickly headed to the door. I completely understand that they are busy so I tried to keep my questions direct and short.
This attitude was not just at one hospital.
While I stayed with her, which was 7-8 hours a day over the course of a month or 2, there was a slight undercurrent of something not quite right. In retrospect, despite the wonderful nurses and there attitude and help, it does look like money played a major role in the care of her.
So as you can see, in my case, I have to question the motives of the Medical establishment. I'm sure that ALL of the Doctors mean well, but I fear that rules/regulations and financial bottom lines may take precedent which could compromise their sincere desire to help.
As for my Dad, it's too long, but I see the same undercurrent when looking back.

Having said all of that, I wonder what my opinion would be if both parents made it out of the hospitals alive or if my own circumstances with the medical establishment were positive? As I said in the beginning of this, 'God has created circumstances that lead me to............'


Lastly, I think I'm coming across as some alt therapy guru or prophet or at the very least, a Vit C guru/prophet. I really hope not, because I'm not. I was just using that vitamin as an example. I think we all know that we need a synergy of nutrients to keep us well, as well as God allows. (Saying that brings a question to my mind that at some point, I may bring to the forum).

I think Ray has shown us that we should never, ever take another persons word, at least in one aspect of our lives, but good advice in other aspect, without, if at all possible, researching for ourselves. But yes, sometimes we don't have that capacity and we sometimes have to take a, 'leap of faith', which may unfortunatly, end in bad results.


Being new here I'm sure a lot of you have your guard up concerning this 'new guy'. Perhaps I should introduce myself at some point. Just know for now that I've been lurking here for a couple of years and though you don't really know me, through this forum I know some of you....as much as one can know someone through a forum.
On that very long note, I'll leave this conversation, (plus I burned my breakfast and am late for work from typing this up).

Dennis,
I'll too will pray that God gives you the relief that you so desire.

Michael

[Rhys 🕊]

Thanks for pointing things back to Christ where they should be John.

So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God 1 Cor 10:31

Maybe we should be doing this more. It has worked for me:

But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Matt 6:33

Amen

Rhys

[Deborah-Leigh]

Dear Dennis

This might explain your symptoms, and provide you a solution for immediate relief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vb9R0x_0NQ

[lilitalienboi16]

It's completely hypocritical that people praise and love science when it agree's to their beliefs and views. When it designs cars, Airplanes, computers, medical machines, pacemakers, things that make our everyday world go round. Yet as soon as it comes to the very same science which trains your physicians and guides the research which finds new ways to kill cancer, cure diseases, obliterate bacterial strains, virus' etc.. you suddenly become doubtful. You shun it. You talk bad about it, you doubt it and suddenly you yourself are an expert now in the field of medical research, medicine and nutrition.

Science is great when it makes creationists look silly with their idea's of 6000 year old earth but God forbid it train and teaches our physicians intimate things about biological organisms such as ourself and expounds for us their complexity and beauty and gives us an opportunity to heal these machines with which through time, ordained by God, they should decay and whither away.

If only some of you realized how silly you sound. To an outsider looking in. You can't see it because you're so caught up in the midst of it.

Ever stop and think that maybe doctors don't tell you everything, not because they are greedy, corrupt money hungry ******** but rather because you, with your lack of training and education in the matter, your ignorance, would be impossible to explain to you? It's like trying to teach a baby how to write words when he's still learning his alphabet or worse, hasn't even learned any of the letters yet.

But whatever, continue on your path, as was said; It is all of God and you are right, God puts the circumstances in our lives which motive us, move us, create doubt in us, direct us, etc... So that's all ill say about this.

God be with you all,

Alex

[Rhys 🕊]

Ummm… I think……

But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.” Matt 9:12

I wonder who is responsible for all of this…..

Who forgives all your iniquity, who heals all your diseases, Psalm 103:3


Maybe this is happening….

And he said, “Go, and say to this people: “‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’ Make the heart of this people dull, and their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.” Isaiah 6: 9-10

Hijacking going on with your post Dennis. I hope you get better soon.

Rhys

[onelovedread]

Dennis,
I know that God has not abandoned you and He together with the trial will be making the sequel also, to enable you to undergo it.
I wonder if all this self pontificating and one-up-man-ship is helping you, and making you feel better.
I can't read your mind but I think the reason you posted was to ask that we keep you in our thoughts and prayers, and recommend possible remedies.
Now it seems to be degenerating into debate.
I hope the mods close this thread soon. It's getting ugly and tedious to read.

[lilitalienboi16]

Hello dennis,

I apologize for having participated in what has quickly derailed your thread. Please forgive me.

I have not stopped praying for you though and will continue to do so! I hope your condition improves and you feel better soon! Hopefully your specialist was able to provide some sort of help!

Sincerely,

Alex

[octoberose]

Does anyone know how Dennis is doing? It's distressing to hear of all his suffering and I am praying.

[Dennis Vogel]

I'm just waiting to go to the doctors Friday.

It got a little better Friday but then bad again Saturday. It's worse now than it's ever been.

[Gina]

Oh wow, Dennis.

Let's everyone pray that God has mercy on Dennis and on Dennis' employer and co-workers (I know they need you) and his work isn't doubled by the time he's healthy enough to return to full days.  Let's pray their needs are met abundantly by God until Dennis is able to return to work.

 God is good.

Let's pray that Dennis' employer has mercy and understanding regarding Dennis' illness and doesn't increase Dennis' anxiety and stress, since he's probably not able to work much if at all -- I know the guilt that goes along with that and that causes stress. 

Let's pray that God gives your family and kids the ability to continue to pitch in where they are able, to alleviate your stress and worry.

Thanks everyone.

Gina

[Gina]

And let's pray that God blesses the doctor that Dennis sees to be able to make Dennis feel better and speedily.

[eggi]

And let's pray that God blesses the doctor that Dennis sees to be able to make Dennis feel better and speedily.

Amen!

[gmik]

hope all g oes well w/ dr visit...let us know

[gregorydc]

Amen!

[Deborah-Leigh]

Dennis

I gave you a video that offers a PHYSICAL explanation with a physical remedy ~ like giving sea water to a person who is thirsty.  Did it help maybe for the brevity of the illusion that an alcoholic feels for the illusive comfort of whisky!

Your experience is a great Gift Dennis with Gina who has rightly turned attention towards the Great Physician. Two Amen's are on record, with several others that will be off record, spoken in the silent closet where our siblings go to speak one on one with God.

There is no healing the human condition. Transmuting it or as Jesus declared, overcoming, is the joy to be known and celebration to be glad, no one will be left stuck in a human limited association with death.

Christ is in you, as He IS, now, not as He WAS, in times past, crucified, and beaten to a pulp, that Babylon upholds.

Dennis, you have come out of Babylon. Prayers already spoken by Ray and Jesus that you never return to Babylon, are most surely with you! How can this not be true. It is fact. Ray prayed for you as truly as Christ Jesus prayed for Simon who was desired of Satan.

Ray left the teaching that Jesus Christ was not His body cadaver. Ray taught that Jesus, His personality, soul and sentient being, after crucifixion, did not set off to teach those in "paradise".  Jesus died. That is what is happening to you but with far more Grace in your favour Dennis, for Jesus said we could do more than He could do for greater things you WILL do.

My prayer is that this be appointed for you Dennis, not to mean you must die physically, but that you must overcome, physicality.

Letting go of your idea of who you are, can't happen with human will or strength nor by personal or physical medicinal properties. If it could, Doctors would have overcome death in their patients by 100% Only God has done such a thing! By His Spirit,  transformation  occurs. Everything  taught by the world is wrong. Doing this and doing that, or knowing this and knowing that, doesn't and can not or ever, side step death.

Transformation and overcoming, is by His Spirit not knowledge, or knowing better.

Death for a moment, not an eternity, is conditional to human experience.

What is not Christ, will melt away.

Identity and the only association that can remain, is  Christ risen in you, Who brings the quickening of the body, in experience of communion as HE IS,  Who is beyond pain, decay and death. 

I can see Christ Himself, dawning in you Dennis.

A quick fix of an injection or a medical formula to put your body on its feet, your mind back on the job, your life back into the world, and your sense of physical well being into balance, I pray, be a manifest liberation from false association with death, the shadows of death's emissaries that are illness, disease suffering, grief loss and agony, that are all  conditions of humanness.

Addiction to humanness is not stronger than life. God' Spirit is your liberty.
 
I pray that you'll accept completed association to the perfected state of Christ in you, with full unequivocal surrender to  wholeness of perfection you are called to be. Ask, and you shall receive. I pray that you ask. You're being called Dennis. That is certain!

Arc

[arion]

I have to admit that my flesh cringes when I considered the suffering that Ray went through and what you are now enduring.  Ray didn't get cancer because he sinned and your not enduring what your going through because you've sinned. 

I don't understand why God sometimes uses physical suffering for working his ways in us instead of using spiritual pressure to mold us in his image sometimes.  Some people have physical problems while others have psychiatric and psychological trouble and still others have both.  And it sure seems like others burdens are more desirable than others.

It's easier said then done when we are in the middle of the trial but as we've be taught when we are on the other side we can look back to see that God was with us all along even though he seemed so distant at the time.  No real words of wisdom or medical advice but know we are standing with you and praying that God will make a way for you.

[Joel]

Words spoken by Jesus have stuck in my mind lately.
Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Thanks to anyone that are about doing good, helping those that are suffering in what ever way shape or form. God has the final say whatever the outcome shall be any way.

Joel