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Does Anyone Else See This?
snorky:
I have needed this thread, because the issue of judging Christians for believing heresies hits home with my blog (which forum rules state I can't post). I am on a spiritual journey so when I post to this blog I am posting about what God has led me to spiritual discern, which is amazing since I stopped looking at the Bible through the eyes of what others have claimed about it. Yet I believe I still have "logs" in my own eyes. So, am I wrong to call the Pharisees of today to task?--snorky
Dan:
quote: what about these verses?Huh not knowing what they are doing versus having known and rejected???
Man does not reject anything on his own accord. Period.
The Father is in complete control of mans will, mans mans life and mans death.
Do you suppose Pharoah was rejecting Gods demand on his own accord?
Do you suppose Samson killed Phillistines or married a gentile on his own accord?
Do you suppose that you can come to the knowledge and reject Him on your own accord?
"in his mind a man set his path, but he Lord (even) determines his steps"
Luk 7:41 There were two debtors to a certain creditor: the one owed five hundred denarii and the other fifty.(one sinned more than the other)
Luk 7:42 But they not having a thing to pay, he freely forgave both. Then which of them do you say will love him most?
Luk 7:43 And answering, Simon said, I suppose the one to whom he freely forgave the most. And He said to him, You have judged rightly.
if anyone is punished for any sins commited, then he actually is not forgiven for the sins is he?
If a person has to PAY for a sin no matter how great or how small then the act of Christ bearing and forgiving the sins of the world is not true.
Of course the wages of sin is death. And when we sin(sow into the wind) we reap the whirlwind. But this IS by design of our great Father.
The Father brought us into sin on purpose so that when the end of sin(death) occurs we can see how glorious He really is. We can only appreciate this if we experience or live through His opposite or sin.
We cannot fully realize or appreciate what light is unless we experience what darkness is.
I have much to say on this topic, however I dont expect most to see what I am saying.
Dan:
Luk 7:41 There were two debtors to a certain creditor: the one owed five hundred denarii and the other fifty.(one sinned more than the other)
Luk 7:42 But they not having a thing to pay, he freely forgave both.
If a person can pay for his sins through punishment, he WOULD "have a thing to pay"
rocky:
--- Quote from: Dan on August 03, 2006, 02:08:13 PM ---quote: what about these verses?Huh not knowing what they are doing versus having known and rejected???
Man does not reject anything on his own accord. Period.
The Father is in complete control of mans will, mans mans life and mans death.
Do you suppose Pharoah was rejecting Gods demand on his own accord?
Do you suppose Samson killed Phillistines or married a gentile on his own accord?
Do you suppose that you can come to the knowledge and reject Him on your own accord?
"in his mind a man set his path, but he Lord (even) determines his steps"
Luk 7:41 There were two debtors to a certain creditor: the one owed five hundred denarii and the other fifty.(one sinned more than the other)
Luk 7:42 But they not having a thing to pay, he freely forgave both. Then which of them do you say will love him most?
Luk 7:43 And answering, Simon said, I suppose the one to whom he freely forgave the most. And He said to him, You have judged rightly.
if anyone is punished for any sins commited, then he actually is not forgiven for the sins is he?
If a person has to PAY for a sin no matter how great or how small then the act of Christ bearing and forgiving the sins of the world is not true.
Of course the wages of sin is death. And when we sin(sow into the wind) we reap the whirlwind. But this IS by design of our great Father.
The Father brought us into sin on purpose so that when the end of sin(death) occurs we can see how glorious He really is. We can only appreciate this if we experience or live through His opposite or sin.
We cannot fully realize or appreciate what light is unless we experience what darkness is.
I have much to say on this topic, however I dont expect most to see what I am saying.
--- End quote ---
I too believe God is in control of all.
I need help in understanding Romans 1-3, and reconciling that man is not accountable for his sins, "forgive them for they no not what they do".
The wages of sin is death, and we all die. The only way to life is through death. So it seems to me, we all do pay for our sins, we all die. What the cross does, is guarantee a resurrection. Death no longer has any power. If forgiveness doesn't mean we have to pay the consequence of it, then none would die. I don't see Christs death and resurrection as substitutional, but as the path we all take, and only accomplished through the power of the risen Christ.
arnold:
Read your last post,
You said you wondered if Calvinist would burn in hell forever. That an indication that you believe hell is forever right?
you are the author of that post right.
And just to let you know I am not trying to be harmful in anyway, just trying to figure it out.
arnold
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