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RAY'S DEFAULT BIBLE
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: Avidfisher on January 22, 2013, 03:04:09 AM --- Have been studying Rays work for quite some time now and the only thing I see he missed, or maybe he didn't, is that Satan is also a metephor, a metephor for the carnal mind..
--- End quote ---
No, he didn't miss this issue and taught on it several times. To say that Satan is a metaphor for our carnal minds is to break the logic of Scripture.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11604.0.html and elsewhere.
indianabob:
Hi Fisher,
I've been thinking on that as well. All I've come up with so far is the reference to spiritual powers in high places.
What if the Angels of God (messengers) are our protectors while the powers of Satan, however they work or are manifested, are the spiritual powers that lead humans with great power to corrupt the world so that events occur to lead the "world" into destruction? For example did God directly influence Pharaoh to resist God's will by hardening Pharaoh's heart or did a Satanic being do it. [I recognize that ALL is of God]
The example that comes to mind is the Book of Job and how Satan, a spirit with access to God, tested Job to teach Job a needed lesson. Did Satan seek that opportunity? Or did God choose the timing of the event in Job's life? Or was this title of Satan a metaphor for Job's carnal spirit?
Also if it is true that God does not tempt us directly, [we are drawn away by our own lust] then aren't we left with the need of an accuser of the brethren? A spiritual entity created for and assigned to tempt us. [according to God's intent]
How are we to understand the actions of the accuser or prosecutor of all people, especially of the brethren?
And all of this is leading to convicting us of our desperate need for God's spirit to lead us in everything.
Where has Ray addressed this issue?
Please comment everyone, Indiana Bob
Kat:
Hi Bob,
--- Quote ---What if the Angels of God (messengers) are our protectors while the powers of Satan, however they work or are manifested, are the spiritual powers that lead humans with great power to corrupt the world so that events occur to lead the "world" into destruction? For example did God directly influence Pharaoh to resist God's will by hardening Pharaoh's heart or did a Satanic being do it.
--- End quote ---
On this point we know through Scripture that it was God that actually hardened Pharaoh heart. Now that in and of itself was not to tempt him, but God was the cause (hardened his heart) for which Pharaoh would not let them go.
Exo 4:21 And Jehovah said to Moses, When you go to return into Egypt, see that you do all those wonders which I have put in your hand before Pharaoh; but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. (also Exo 7:3;14:4.17; 1Sa 6:6)
If the angels were directing all of human actions, then we would be but mere pawns like on a chess board. Humans play a big role in their own actions, even after the flood to wipe out the biggest part of wickedness, God still attest "the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth" (Gen 8:21). So man is carnal (given to sensual pleasures and appetites) all of his life, unless the Spirit of God intervenes. As you referenced this verse.
Jas 1:14 but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
Satan is a pawn though, an God can easily direct him, because he is one of the causes God uses, as Satan himself is made for a certain purpose. God sets up things, causes (Satan being just one of the infinite number of causes God uses) so we always go in the direction that He has determined. Satan however is the god of this age and therefore all carnal minded people are his subjects and of his domain.
2Co 4:4 in whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving ones, so that the light of the glorious gospel of Christ (who is the image of God) should not dawn on them.
Here is a section from an article that may help.
http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html --------------------------------------------
A FEW OF THE EVILS THAT GOD USES IN SAVING THE WORLD
The Scriptures assure us that God did not create things that had no purpose for existence in the first place. All that God created was "very good." God "created evil," how can evil be good? That sounds like something God Himself said that we should not say: "Woe unto them that call evil good…" (Isa. 5:20.)
First let me clarify that it is God Who says to US not to do this. In Gen. 1:31 it is God Who says:
"And God saw every thing that He had made [‘I make peace, and create evil’ Isa. 45:7] , and, behold, it was very good…"
Is this a contradiction? No, but it takes a bit of wisdom beyond childhood to properly understand it. God makes things that are "good," even "very good," that are not inherently good. That is, they are not good in and by themselves, but they are very good, in fact, PERFECT, for the purpose for which they were created.
Here are a few that existed before our parents sinned:
The spiritual weakness of Adam and Eve
Satan the serpent devil
No protection from the serpent devil
The Tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL
Nighttime and darkness
Human emotions of greed, lust, and vanity
God created all of these things, and yet not one of them is "good" in and by its self. Yet they are all perfectly good for the purpose for which they were created. But since they are not inherently good, they will all be changed or discarded after they have fulfilled their purpose. In the kingdom of God there will be no weakness, no insecurity, no devils, no night, no emotions of lust and vanity, and nothing ugly. All of the things that I listed are TEMPORARY tools that will be discarded when the human race is perfected.
Next, let’s see a few of the evils that God Himself has used after Adam sinned:
"I create EVIL" (Isa. 45:7)
Out of God’s mouth "proceeds…EVIL" (Lam. 3:38.)
"…an experience of EVIL has God given to the sons of man…" (Ecc. 1:13, Concordant Liter Old Testament.)
"…I [God] will raise up EVIL against thee…" (II Sam. 12:11.)
"…has not the Potter [God] the right… to make… one [vessel] for DISHONOR?" (Rom. 9:19-25.)
"I [God] created the waster to DESTROY" (Isa. 54:16.)
"The Lord has made…the WICKED for the day of EVIL" (Prov. 16:4.)
"…I [God] will bring EVIL from the north, and a great DESTRUCTION (Jer. 4:6.)
"…Hear, O earth: behold, I [God] will bring EVIL upon this people…" (Jer. 6:19.)
God told a "lying spirit" to "…go forth, and do so [lie]" (I Kings 22:22.)
"He [God] turned their heart to HATE His people…" (Psalm 105:25.)
"Behold I [God] frame EVIL against you…" (Jer. 18:11.)
"For God locks up all together in STUBBORNNESS [that’s an evil]…" (Rom. 11:32.)
"O Lord, why have You MADE us TO ERR from your ways…" (Isa. 63:17.)
"…so shall the Lord bring upon you ALL EVIL THINGS…" (Josh. 23:15.)
"…shall there be EVIL in a city, and the Lord has not done it?" (Amos 3:6.)
"Yet He [God] is SCOURGING [severely beating] every son to whom He is receiving" (Heb. 12:5.)
"What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and shall we not receive EVIL" (Job 2:10.)
"Thus saith the Lord of hosts… go and SMITE Amalek… DESTROY… SLAY both man and woman, infant and suckling…" (I Sam. 15:2-3.)
"…God shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe A LIE" (II Thes. 2:11.)
I do not take delight in presenting these Scriptures to you. They are hard sayings, for sure, but they are the truth; they are Scriptural; and they are all done by God; and they are "very good" in accomplishing the desired end result that God has planned from the beginning. God is justified in all that He does. All is out of love and for the advancement of turning every human creature into the very "Image of God."
Christian theology will not allow or tolerate the Scriptural teaching that God Himself created evil and uses evil continuously down through history and out into the prophetic future to accomplish His will.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
levycarneiro:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on January 22, 2013, 11:02:21 AM ---
--- Quote from: Avidfisher on January 22, 2013, 03:04:09 AM --- Have been studying Rays work for quite some time now and the only thing I see he missed, or maybe he didn't, is that Satan is also a metephor, a metephor for the carnal mind..
--- End quote ---
No, he didn't miss this issue and taught on it several times. To say that Satan is a metaphor for our carnal minds is to break the logic of Scripture.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11604.0.html and elsewhere.
--- End quote ---
All leads to Satan being a spirit that greatly influences our carnal mind, but not being the carnal mind itself.
Rhys 🕊:
Satan is very real as Kat mentions. The demonic attacks that I have been through agree with what Ray teaches. Good news is that God is in control and uses Satan as He has used him in my life. The church acts like is running a muck but that's wrong. I don't get everything that God is doing in me and His use of Satan in it but I do notice His work in making me like Christ which I can only thank Him for.
2Co 2:11 Lest we should be overreached by Satan, for, of his thoughts, we are not ignorant.
Sorry Lazar (Wonone) your topic has gone in a different direction, not helped by me of course.
Rhys
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