> General Discussions
In relation to the coming of Jesus and the revealing of the man of lawlessness
Oatmeal:
In the Lake of Fire series (refer to parts 13 & 14) Ray ties the revealing of the man of lawlessness to the wild beast that comes out of the sea and with the is, was, and will be of Revelation.
Ray says that the revealing of the man of sin to each individual of the elect is in his particular time (is, was, and will be), but that the coming of Jesus to destroy the lawless one is a future event.
Why does Ray not also tie in the coming of Jesus with the is, was, and will be of Revelation? Is the coming of Jesus mentioned in Revelation? If it is, why would that not also be a is, was, and will be?
Why were believers in the early church clearly commanded to wait for the coming of Jesus, and why did Jesus Himself command each and every believer to watch?
To be helpful, I have included Scriptures in regard to that waiting. 1 Corinthians 1:7-8, at least in the English in a number of versions, has an interesting order of events, and that is the reason that for that Scripture I have given both the KJV and the CLV versions. Are others aware of more Scripture in this regard?
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10 (KJV)
For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Hebrews 10:36-37 (KJV)
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
1 Corinthians 1:7-8 (KJV)
So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:7-8 (CLV)
so that you are not deficient in any grace, awaiting the unveiling of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who will be confirming you also until the consummation, unimpeachable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye [ye is singular] know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Thank you for your assistance.
Oatmeal.
Dave in Tenn:
http://bible-truths.com/email11.htm#preterist
Try this one. It may make the question: "Why does Ray not also tie in the coming of Jesus with the is, was, and will be of Revelation? Is the coming of Jesus mentioned in Revelation? If it is, why would that not also be a is, was, and will be?" moot.
Hopefully that will be at least a start.
Can you point to where Ray said that "the coming of Jesus to destroy the lawless one is a future (only?) event?
Oatmeal:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on January 16, 2013, 07:20:48 PM ---Can you point to where Ray said that "the coming of Jesus to destroy the lawless one is a future (only?) event?
--- End quote ---
The following quote from Ray refers to Jesus coming to us all collectively, the all being the manifest sons of God, by which I assume Ray is referring to the elect (the chosen). The quote does not say "the coming of Jesus to destroy the lawless one" but I think that the Scripture is clear that that is when the lawless one is destroyed (at the coming of the Lord Jesus - 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (CLV) - then will be unveiled the lawless one (whom the Lord Jesus will despatch with the spirit of His mouth and will discard by the advent of His presence),)
--- Quote from: Ray – Lake of Fire – Part XIV --- And now ye know what withholds [is restraining, is detaining—‘the falling away FIRST’] that he
[‘the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition’—YOU…] might be revealed in his time [in YOU
and TO YOU—individually, not collectively] in his time [‘his {particular} time’]—FOR YOU and FOR
ME and for ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS COMES TO US ALL,
COLLECTIVELY, AS THE MANIFEST SONS OF GOD]."
--- End quote ---
Dave in Tenn:
I guess I'm not really understanding your questions, then. That part you quoted DOES speak to the "Is, Was, and Will be" of the 'revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition'. I still don't see a place where Ray teaches that "the coming of Jesus to destroy the lawless one is a future event."
It's certainly 'future' for any who have not yet had this revelation, and this revelation is one that 'must take place'.
If that doesn't help, then I'm stumped as to the question.
Gina:
This is amazing. I have been looking for that email everywhere for other reasons than what Oatmeal is looking for, John, and here it is!
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