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Author Topic: In relation to the coming of Jesus and the revealing of the man of lawlessness  (Read 5905 times)

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eskimojerry

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Second chances? What is this teaching?
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Rhys

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Second chances? What is this teaching?

Correct eskimojerry. There are no second chances. Your either one of God's elect or you are not. I would like to think that I am one of God's elect but I don't know that. I do know about the work He is doing in my life and more and more I want to obey Him. As He said if you love me you will obey me. Those who don't truly know Christ in this age never will and will always be in the judgement. I'm glad that God is working in my life and to whatever He has install for me I am happy with that. Indeed I rejoice in that.

Rhys
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Dave in Tenn

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Correct eskimojerry. There are no second chances. Your either one of God's elect or you are not. ...Those who don't truly know Christ in this age never will and will always be in the judgement.

Am I still at Bible-Truths.com?  Are "the Elect" the LAST to be chosen?  What is judgement FOR except to lead people to truly know Christ?  Won't every knee bow and every tongue aver that Jesus Christ is Lord? 

Are the Elect not going to be "saved"?  Are the "saved" NEVER going to be 'Elect'?  How are "the saved" going to be "saved", then?  By their own free-will?  EVERYBODY is going to be chosen...each in their own turn.  The Elect aren't the Elect because of anything in them or done by them...they are ELECT because they have been ELECTED.  And they aren't the end, and truly not even the beginning.

When Ray talks about theology's use of the term 'second chances', he's talking about the element of CHANCE, not 'first'. 'second', 'only', etc.  This isn't about CHANCE but about CERTAINTY!

       
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rhys

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Sorry you have me confused Dave. Was talking in reference to no second chance in this life. I agree with you God's elect have been elected by Him and not based on what they have done. Of course God has time for each of us. We can only die to the flesh by His leading.


Dear Ray:  I have learned a great deal from the writings on your website.  We are studying Paulís letter to the Romans.  Paul writes often about the wrath of God starting already in Rom 1:18.  How do you reconcile Godís wrath with the Gospel and 1 Tim 2:4 where it says ĎHe desires all to be savedí?

     

    Sincerely,

     

    Ed


    Dear Ed:

    I'm afraid I don't understand your question. What does the fact of God's wrath have to do with His will to save all mankind?  His wrath is His Judgment, and God will SAVE most of humanity through JUDGMENT. Read my series on "The Lake of Fire."  There are two judgments--one on believers NOW; and another on non-believers LATER.  If we are judged now, we will avoid the "wrath to come."

    God be with you,

    Ray
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 10:54:39 PM by Rhys NZ »
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Iíve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Samson

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Correct eskimojerry. There are no second chances. Your either one of God's elect or you are not. ...Those who don't truly know Christ in this age never will and will always be in the judgement.

Am I still at Bible-Truths.com?  Are "the Elect" the LAST to be chosen?  What is judgement FOR except to lead people to truly know Christ?  Won't every knee bow and every tongue aver that Jesus Christ is Lord? 

Are the Elect not going to be "saved"?  Are the "saved" NEVER going to be 'Elect'?  How are "the saved" going to be "saved", then?  By their own free-will?  EVERYBODY is going to be chosen...each in their own turn.  The Elect aren't the Elect because of anything in them or done by them...they are ELECT because they have been ELECTED.  And they aren't the end, and truly not even the beginning.

When Ray talks about theology's use of the term 'second chances', he's talking about the element of CHANCE, not 'first'. 'second', 'only', etc.  This isn't about CHANCE but about CERTAINTY!

       


I conclusively agree with Dave, perhaps it's the use of the word "Chance," nothings by chance, everything that happens to everyone was already planned in advance down to it's intricate details which includes who the Chosen Elect are going to be, God does the work in you. Ask Paul, better yet, ask anyone who knew Paul prior to His conversion and even some of the apostles for a short time after. They knew who He was before and what He was doing, so they had some caution towards associating with Him for a short while. None of them knew or expected that Saul who became Paul would be a chosen vessel because of His sordid past being the worst of sinners, but God had other plans.

Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:11  In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them
Php 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 FOR IT IS GOD WHO WORKETH in you both to will and TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.

1Ti 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6  Who gave himself a ransom for all, TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME.

Act 9:26  And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.
Act 9:27  But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
Gal 1:13  For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
Gal 1:17  Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
Gal 1:18  Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Gal 1:19  But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
Gal 1:23  But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

Good Post Dave, Samson.

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thewatchman

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chance in the form I used meant opportunity. How did you all go off on this ridiculous bender? obedience and suffering the cleansing fires of gehennas fires does bring a reward. It's not salvation of the masses. It is election and adoption.
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Avidfisher

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Okay then how do you reconcile with the verses in Romans that Say none Are righteous or seek after God or understand .
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Avidfisher

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Christ had nowhere to lay his head the foxes have holes in the bird had nests.  None are righteous It says none are righteous or seek after God.  I think the key here is 1 simple verse.  Let not sin reign in your mortal body.  I won't go in to why I think it is crazy to even suggest 1 lives without sin.  The key is like Ray said we are all of the beast the only difference is is it has been manifested in some to realize itto and others it has not.
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thewatchman

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there is no conflict with what I said and Romans. I cannot comprehend why you would think so. Christ within us is our hope of Glory. Any righteousness any of us has is only to the measure and the fullness and stature of Christ worked within us. I never stated otherwise, so why do you think I did? I said quite clearly that we must die to the flesh. Did you miss that?
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Kat

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Hi thewatchman,

I see where you are coming from, I'll just add a bit more to it.

Mat 16:24  Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.
v. 25  For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

We know that "the carnal mind is enmity against God" (Rom. 8:7). So where does this motivation/desire to follow Christ come from?

Php 2:12  Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
v. 13  for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

So we have been given the motivation from God to "work out our own salvation,"  "to run the race," this does not come from our own 'self' motivation, only if God "draws us," through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And yes there is a glorious prize to keep us motivated towards our ultimate goal.  It should be a joy to have this hope of being born into the kingdom in the first resurrection.

Luke 12:32  "Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

But to reign with Christ is only for those few elected and prepared in this life. The rest will certainly enter the kingdom, but not to reign and rule with Christ. That's what makes being in the first resurrection such a prize and one to highly desire.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1529.msg12918.html#msg12918 -----

The "Kingdom of God" is the kingdom that will rule the nations under the Kingship of Jesus Christ, composed of lesser kings, lords, priests, and judges.  These kings, lords, priests, and judges, are composed of the ranks of God's Chosen Elect Saints.
 
Only those worthy of the First resurrection from the death will ever rule with Christ in the Kingdom of God. Those who are judged, purified and saved in the Great White Throne Judgment will be in God's family, but they will never be rulers with Christ.
 
And don't ask any more detailed questions on this, because it would take hours to answer you, and I just don't have the time. Much of this material is already covered in my Lake of Fire series. Hope you understand.

God be with you,

Ray
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 07:14:09 PM by Kat »
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Avidfisher

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Ok you all have fun I will let you back to your normal discussion.
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onelovedread

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Avidfisher, are you and Oatmeal the same person?
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Avidfisher

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I have no need to hide behind multiple names, and will not be back, so like I said before, have fun and resume your discussion like I was never here.....
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thewatchman

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nicely put kat. it was hard to imagine that Ray hadn't covered it.
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ez2u

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the information in this post was very nourishing  thanks
 everyone
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