Killing/Murder

[Gina]

Arion said:  Even for the women I doubt if there is a female on this forum that if a man broke into your house to rape your daughter or molest your son that you would do everything in your power to stop him up to and including deadly force if it was called for.

Well see, now that borders on free will. 

Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails. 

I realize the need to be prepared and to be careful, and that's good.  But I have gone overboard in an attempt to keep anything bad from ever happening, only to wind up super depressed, anxious and worried over something that may or may not happen.  Anticipating and planning to counteract something bad, always seems to contradict this verse:   

Phil. 4:8 whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

Not judging.  I realize there are places in this world where people live their entire lives looking over their shoulder for no other reason than they have a different skin color.  I'm not talking about that.

[Rito1980]

Maybe God wants us to see that life in this carnal world is pointless

[Joel]

I can understand where Ray is coming from when he said there is a big, big difference between "Thou shalt not kill." and "Thou shalt not murder. "
The death sentence is no doubt the best verdict in some cases in judgements.
There is the case of Ananias and Sappria in Acts 5. Pretty stiff sentence for lying.
Ecclesiastes 3:3
A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Then there is Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

I personally don't like killing, don't even hunt. But I don't have a problem with anyone that does, and goes about it properally.

Joel

[indianabob]

Rito1980 & friends,

But life in this carnal world IS NOT pointless. There is a great lesson for all, even for those that are not yet called. They are learning every day that they are weak and incomplete without God in their lives and when they finally are called all of this history and knowledge will come back to their memory and quickly convict them of their need for God. Then we will be there to guide them into all knowledge and begin to build them up into a work of God as has been done for each of us.

Indiana Bob

[space.ace.jase]

Maybe what Rita1980 meant to say was temporary. If it was pointless I would have ended my life years ago.

[Rito1980]

But there are babies who only get to live for a few minutes. What would be the purpose of having only lived for a brief time?

[darren]

I believe in The Lord, I consider myself a christian, I have faith in The All knowing powerfull Lord. I asked many times what would Jesus do. This being said I would not hesitate to do whatever it takes to protect my loved one from being physically harmed. The Lord made the husband the protector of his family and I shall do so at all coast even if it means my death. No I would not want to kill anyone but I would if that's what it takes to save my loved one from some nut who's intentions are to take away the ones i love.

Darren

[indianabob]

But there are babies who only get to live for a few minutes. What would be the purpose of having only lived for a brief time?

Rito,
The death of anyone, even babies, is but a brief interruption of life until the resurrection to come.
An infant who dies because of accident or disease shall be resurrected to 'continue' life once again.
That resurrection will be after Lord Jesus returns to rule in the world. So for many who may live or be born into terrible conditions of war and poverty, dying early may be a blessing, because they will be resurrected into a better world of love within God's future government.

Indiana Bob

[space.ace.jase]

To have a full knowledge of good and EVIL. That's why babies are born to die so young.

Those babies will later go on to live and be judged at some later time.

[indianabob]

Well said John and helpful,
Perhaps it is a test of sorts to check ourselves to see if we have true faith.
Anyone can break into my house with a gloved fist or a swift kick, and I sleep like a baby.
So they could be in our bedroom in about ten seconds.
But they won't be able to do that until God is finished working on me.
And if they are able, then I go to my rest with a clear conscience and God will deal with them as He wishes.


Romans 12:19
(KJV)

19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

[ez2u]

this has been on my mind too and would like to share my thoughts.  hope people reply.  Jn 3:17-19
ALTHOUGH i SUGGEST THE WHOLE CHAPTER BE READ  because it does relate so well about being born again
Joh 3:17  For God has not sent his Son into the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him.
Joh 3:18  He that believes on him is not judged: but he that believes not has been already judged, because he has not believed on the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19  And this is the judgment, that light is come into the world, and men have loved darkness rather than light; for their works were evil.
  I was looking at this verse " that light is come into the World"  our world is dark and light separates the dark.  if you have a problem like an infection in your body and it comes out on your skin  "boil"  pimple  the best way to treat it is to allow it to surfaces and leave the body.  your body is throwing off the problem.  now I am not saying we sin and allow it.  what I am saying is if we try to work salvation ourselves it is the work of the flesh.  Chris through His Holy Spirit and it is His desired to mature us is at work.  The problems are there  the opportunities are there to grow and we are.  Ray talked about this  in his paper on are we chosen and how we must fall first. 
this Light that came into the World  it is such a contrast to darkness. pure and holy Gods Son on earth.  it makes me think it is causing the sin to surface up and be done way with.  Jesus has brought about the Will of the Father in this earth and sin is being destroyed by the light.  that my thinking simple but i believe that Light has set in motion the wrong to surface more or be seen and the hope and glory is that He Jesus Christ  disolve conquer that death and sin  that dwells ino ur being.

[ez2u]

one more thing here   there are sooo many opinons   love it but also brotherly love.  I have been in  a lot of prayer late and not been on the forum  nice to be back   

[Shawn Fainn]

Interesting responses. As evil only seems to increase in the world, it's difficult to resist acting at times and be patient.. I'm sure we still have a ways to go, but I'm looking forward to when all the wickedness is done away with.

[santgem]

There will be no peace on the earth. Yes, evil only seems to increase in the world, but we have to endure it to the last.

"....Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luk 18:8"

[Craig]

As evil only seems to increase in the world

The key word her is "seems".  As bad as the world is, it is good compared to past history. I have spent my free time in the last couple years studying some history, it has always interested me.  History proves that evil has been much worse in the past.  The difference now is the advent of news, internet and the population explosion.  A flea farts on the other side of the world and we hear about it.  In the past something happening in another state or county would harldy make the local news. Now all news is local.

Actually we live in a relatively good time.  If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.

Craig

[microlink]

As evil only seems to increase in the world

Actually we live in a relatively good time.  If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.

Craig

Very true. Peace, peace and there is no peace -BUT- be thankful for the relative "good times" we have now.

[lareli]

As evil only seems to increase in the world

History proves that evil has been much worse in the past.  The difference now is the advent of news, internet and the population explosion.  A flea farts on the other side of the world and we hear about it.  In the past something happening in another state or county would harldy make the local news. Now all news is local.

Actually we live in a relatively good time.  If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.

Craig

I guess it depends on how you define 'evil'. Ive also been intrigued by history more and more over the passed couple years, and so I think (Apologies if Im off base) you might be reffering to evil in the form of mass killings and brutalities such as Hitler killing 6 million Jews, or the brutalities of Gengis Kahn, or the attempted genocide of the Native American and enslaving of Africans etc. etc.

But what about deciet? Is killing someone more evil than lying to someone? Perhaps it seems that these days arent as evil as former days because we view certain evils as worse than others?

[Craig]

As evil only seems to increase in the world

History proves that evil has been much worse in the past.  The difference now is the advent of news, internet and the population explosion.  A flea farts on the other side of the world and we hear about it.  In the past something happening in another state or county would hardly make the local news. Now all news is local.

Actually we live in a relatively good time.  If evil really hit everyone hard, most would fold like a stack of newspapers.

Craig

I guess it depends on how you define 'evil'. Ive also been intrigued by history more and more over the passed couple years, and so I think (Apologies if Im off base) you might be referring to evil in the form of mass killings and brutalities such as Hitler killing 6 million Jews, or the brutalities of Gengis Kahn, or the attempted genocide of the Native American and enslaving of Africans etc. etc.

But what about deciet? Is killing someone more evil than lying to someone? Perhaps it seems that these days arent as evil as former days because we view certain evils as worse than others?

No, I don't think so.  What makes you think deceit is worse now then in the past? Et tu, Brute? Then fall Caesar.  The deceit of people, leaders and government is probably not worse.  Want to see some evil deceitful people? Check out the early Popes. And it is just not the mass killing like Hitler, it is also the treatment of our fellow men, the way women are treated, children abused and everything else; through history it has been just as bad and worse in most things.  We think the world and the US is evil now, because of sexuality, drunkenness government deceit and abuse? Just study the roaring 20's. We cannot claim the title of being worse now, maybe not better but certainly not worse. As I said before because of technology and news, people who were shielded from debauchery in the past see it in the open now.  There is nothing new under the sun.

Craig

[Kat]

I totally agree Craig, I too was reading up on historical accounts of centuries pass... it is incredulous the atrocities that have taken place in every class of people. The fact is humanity is carnal and has a proclivity towards wickedness - selfishness - corruption, we are too spiritual weak to resist sin now and all throughout history. Evil is evil and the world has always had plenty of it.

Now one thing I see is that as the population keeps growing, that naturally increases the number of carnal people that live on this earth... so just by sheer volume of people on earth wickedness will increase.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lareli]

Kat I agree. Just 300 years ago there were less than 1 billion people alive. Today it's close to 7 billion.

Another way to put it is that 300 years ago there were less than 1 billion 'sinners' alive and today there are somewhere around 7 billion 'sinners' alive.