> General Discussions
Adam and Eve were NEVER perfect and were born into sin.
Sonia:
--- Quote from: rvhill ---
You miss understand me, by the two Adams I meant Adam and Eve, as they are both Adam, tell they eat of the fruit. Jesus is a Separate person From Adam. I nave call Jesus Adam. They are both the son of God, but no two brother are the same.
--- End quote ---
Hi rvhill,
I'm not sure where you're coming from, but the reference to Christ as the second Adam is from scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Sonia
rvhill:
--- Quote from: Sonia ---
--- Quote from: rvhill ---
You miss understand me, by the two Adams I meant Adam and Eve, as they are both Adam, tell they eat of the fruit. Jesus is a Separate person From Adam. I nave call Jesus Adam. They are both the son of God, but no two brother are the same.
--- End quote ---
Hi rvhill,
I'm not sure where you're coming from, but the reference to Christ as the second Adam is from scripture:
1 Corinthians 15:45 Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
Sonia
--- End quote ---
I know that. If you wish I will change it to the first 2 Adams, for Eve was Adam also. she was a part of the first Adam.
Adam and Jesus are both First man, Adam came first and Jesus came second. This thread was asking about the first Adam being perfect.
When I was talking about the two Adams. I was talking about the man and woman. Who were both Adam. After they are confronted by God the man rename the woman Eve. Before that the woman was just the woman, and both were Adam.
nightmare sasuke:
--- Quote from: broken ---
--- Quote from: rvhill ---
--- Quote from: broken ---I need to understand the general conception regarding the reason that Adam and Eve could not possibly be created perfect. Here's the concise version of what I'm hearing:
If it was in God's plan that Adam and Eve live in sin, then they could not possibly have been created perfect or else the Tree of Life would not be tempting to them, for temptation only occurs in the carnal mind (carnal is a word that tends to be overabused and misunderstood on this board also, but that's another discussion).
Am I right in my assessment?
Brandon
--- End quote ---
The two Adams were both made innocent, and they had no shame. It does not say they were perfect.
--- End quote ---
1. Jesus had to be perfect...otherwise his sacrifice is invalidated.
2. Further than that, innocence is perfection. Innocence must be sinlessness, which is perfection.
Brandon
--- End quote ---
First of all, being innocent (having no knowledge of good and evil) is the antithesis of being in the image of God. We are being made in God's image (Genesis 1:27), and to be in his image, we must have knowledge of good and evil:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil…� (CLV).
Are you trying to imply God is creating man in his image, yet at the same time wants man to not “become as� him, and comprehend good and evil? God put the fruits of good and evil in the same tree for a reason, trust me.
God obviously is not innocent in the sense that Adam and Eve were or else he would not have had the ability or knowledge to create both good and evil:
Isa 45:7 Former of light and Creator of darkness, Maker of good and Creator of evil. I, Yahweh Elohim, made all of these things� (CLV).
…
Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it [Adam and Eve had to have an expierence of evil to be HUMBLED BY IT!]� (CLV).
Again, we’re being made in his image, part of that is COMING TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT GOOD AND EVIL IS. To imply God did not purpose Adam and Eve to eat the fruit, is to imply that God does not WANT MAN TO BE IN HIS IMAGE.
If you're right, moreover, and Adam and Eve were perfect in their degraded, heart containing, dust made bodies then why was Jesus raised a spiritual body? Why will we ALL be raised spiritual bodies? If human flesh is so "perfect," then why did Jesus have to overcome it, and be freed from it by death, and resurrection? Do you mean to suggest Adam and Eve living in the flesh was part of God’s overall purpose? You probably think Adam and Eve had free will, don’t you? Well, even if Adam and Eve had free will, God was still responsible, for he created them with HEARTS, and what does Jesus have to say about hearts? Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,� (KJV). Free will, or no free will, God gave Adam and Eve hearts, and KNEW AHEAD OF TIME (I’m sure you will not argue with me there), that they would give in to the evil that dwells within the flesh of the heart.
You said, “Jesus had to be perfect...otherwise his sacrifice is invalidated.� Jesus’ spirit was perfect, for he is the son of God, but he had to be born into a flesh and earthy body, and be tempted like all humans; the difference is, Jesus being the son of God, overcame his flesh. “The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven� (1Co 15:47, KJV). Adam was born in the image of the Earth, and was IMPERFECT! However, Jesus came in the FLESH (earthy) but had the spirit of God, which allowed him, by the will of God, to OVERCOME the flesh. Jesus’ body WAS NOT perfect, nor are any human bodies, but Jesus’ spirit and personality, nevertheless, was perfect and overcame the flesh TO FULFILL God’s will, and the prophecies, unlike Adam and Eve who HAD TO SIN for all Adam to come to the knowledge of good and evil, thus being made in God’s image.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly� (CLV).
Do you believe what the scriptures say, that we are all born in the image of the earth, and not God? GOD IS MAKING US into his image, and part of that, involves coming to the knowledge of good and evil! This involves being born into the flesh, which is Earthy.
rvhill:
Ok, Adam mean first man. The man and woman were the first man of the flesh. Jesus was the first man of spirit. The man and woman were the first Adam, the Adam of the flesh. Jesus was the second Adam, the Adam of the spirit. The flesh lead to death, and the spirit lead to life.
nightmare sasuke:
Basically, Jesus was an example for the elect. ALL ELECT will experience what Jesus went through (save being perfect from beginning to end). Jesus' death and resurrection was an example and symbol for the future. We all will die, and be raised in the resurrection. It was only fair that the judge of the world would die, and be resurrected, if he himself would be resurrecting people!
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