bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down

Author Topic: Being called out of the church  (Read 7585 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Patrick

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 672
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2006, 05:19:46 PM »

This is my second post here but this is exaclty the topic I prayed for!

MY first thoughts after reading some fo Ray's teachings and his views on church was, "Oh no, we're going to have to pack up and leave. Or, at least I will".

We attend a Nazarene church. If anyone is familiar with that denomination then you know that many of the church's doctrines are exactly those that Ray goes to great lengths to prove are wrong using God's word and Truth. That said, I am afraid that if people knew what I really think then I/we would be asked to leave. Can you imagine a Nazarene professing that tithing is unscriptural? Huh?!?! But, I would in a second if asked.

We don't want to leave. Why? Our motto is this..."Doing life togehter". We value relationships, not only with each other but our ultimate relationship with Jesus. Our church doesn't go on and on about the "holiness" doctrine that some other Nazarene churches teach. Our worship is contemperary and I am heavilly involved with this. I sing and play trumpet and believe that these God-given gifts are to be used to help others. Outside of church, I see very little opportunity to use these unless I stand on a street corner somewhere.

We have two teenage daughters and whether or not they admit it, we believe that it benefits them to be involved with the youth of the church. However, I've been sharing what I've read here to them when the opportunity presents itself.

So, for now, we stay.
We don't feel guilty about not "tithing" but we do give. Yes, sometimes its money and sometimes its clothes or food, depending on the need.





Those folks at the last Mobile conference help me out here; I believe I heard Ray speak very briefly about not poo-pooing on the church too bad because that is where most of the many called few chosen come from. I can't remember his exact words, is that close?






« Last Edit: October 09, 2006, 05:25:05 PM by hillsbororiver »
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2006, 05:28:20 PM »

Hi Patrick,

Yes, that was about the essence of what Ray said at the Conference and it is true, that is where the elect are called out from and the church is serving it's purpose in that regard.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
Logged

Deborah-Leigh

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2006, 05:34:34 PM »

Hi Keys2Heaven

I know what you mean....I too was comfortable in my Church....rather like comfortable with alcohal or drugs...no...I have not  been either an alcohalic or a drug adict.. a sinner Yes....for (we have ALL fallen short of His Glory)...nevertheless, after reading your post it just reminded me of me and I wanted to write to you.....  

What I read in Ray's Lake Of Fire part 2 THEY SPEAK WITH FORKED-ED TONGUE..  I never knew before I only found out much later after my Church had made me stumble, fall and fail....it was sweet while it lasted though....because I did not know I was stumbling falling and failing because of the sweet smell of anesthetic... Deception has a sweet smell!....it is us who stink in their nostrils as in the stench of death....Don't be surprised if that starts happening to you....It happened to me and it was a SHOCK.....an unexpected shock

I hear me in your post and I see me ....and it can not but hurt because after all, we do not come to Christ of our own....He draggs us.....I see HIM dragging you, calling you....leading you....helping you....

2 Cor 2:15,16..For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:....to the latter it is an aroma wafted from death to death, a fatal odor, the smell of doom.....

That smell I became to my Chuch members......I had NO IDEA!...BUT THEY DID!

I have been brought here by the loving care of Christs Spirit Himself as I know you have been too......I have had trouble coming to terms with the loss of my outside comfort zone (Church fellow-shop for souls) ....I was a Cell leader and Minister of the Word and daily I attended Church so like you, I was...."heavily involved"....and now I am called out.....as He has guided me towards the experience that His Kingdom is truly within....I have recieved generous help from and through Christs wisdom, council and comfort here. Please do not get me wrong. it  is not my place to teach or preach but I can share ..an I am so glad I did....

May your joy increase as you follow after Christ....

Arcturus :)
.....

Logged

dcfreedom

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2006, 10:25:18 PM »

clv luke 12:51-53; 51 Are you supposing that I came along to give peace to the earth? No, I am saying to you, but rather division,
52 For from now on there will be five in one home divided, three against two, and two against three will be divided,
53 father against son and son against father, and mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

clv luke 14:26-27; 26 "If anyone is coming to Me and is not hating his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, and still more his soul besides, he can not be My disciple.
27 And anyone who is not bearing his cross and coming after Me, can not be My disciple.


now this does not mean that you have to literally hate your family. what it means is this. your love and devotion to him should be to the point that everything else actually feels like it is coming between you and christ. this would feel like hate.  for example if you felt like someone was coming between you and your spouse would you not feel like hating them? christ not only wants you to love him he wants you to be in love with him( hence the bridegroom is coming for his bride the church ).

it is very hard for me to talk to my family sometimes because they are so full of themselves in what they believe (not that i never have been) i sometimes could almost hate them because they are coming between christ and myself. i do understand the conflick. look at it this way, God is in control and he will take care of things. when it is time for you to change your scenery you will know. one more thing, always remember everyone we love is going to be saved either now or later. so don't worry too much, just seek God's wisdom and counsil and you will be just fine.
Logged

stego

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2006, 03:23:28 AM »

Hey all,
    Joyful1, i noticed you said
Quote
but that is just not happening for me....so, that must not be God's will , right?
  I just wanted to make sure you are not troubled  with the thought that "Something's not happening now, therefore it's God's will for it not to be happening, therefore if i do anything to make it happen i would be going against God's will.".  This is a very dangerous untrue thought to think.  I believe it is important for all of us to try to do what is right based on what we understand God's will to be, not based on what God has already caused to happen.  Otherwise, we can think things like "I'm depressed, therefore God wants me to be depressed, therefore i shouldn't try do anything to change being depressed."  What a depressing thought eh?  I'm not saying this is what you are saying Joyful, but your quote brought this point to my mind.
    As far as being called out of the church goes, for me it was a little different in that i have only attended church 3 times that i can remember in my life.  So i never really regularly attended church.  However, i DID believe in some of the damable hersies that i now know to be untrue, simply because i believed that if the bible said it then it must be true, although the thought of people going to hell never really did sit well with me.  I did on occasion comfort myself with the scripture "With God all things are possible."  That scripture allowed me to believe that God would still somehow save people from hell, maybe after they had been there awhile.  But, thank goodness God led me here to learn the truth that no one goes to hell! 

God Bless,
    Sean
Logged

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2006, 12:12:56 PM »

Sean,
I've thought and thought about free-will and God's will this past week--sometimes I go to the sink to do the dishes and think; "I really don't want to do these....what if I just leave them here forever? what will happen? will God FORCE me to do them?  LOL....and crazy thoughts like that ...like....questioning exactly how this "non-free-will" thingy works.  Do you know what I mean? The only way that I can know if its God will or not, is if it "comes to pass"....Do you see that? or Not? :::still thinking she can get away with not doing the dishes today!:::::     ;D
joyful1
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2006, 12:47:38 PM »

Sean,
I've thought and thought about free-will and God's will this past week--sometimes I go to the sink to do the dishes and think; "I really don't want to do these....what if I just leave them here forever? what will happen? will God FORCE me to do them?  LOL....and crazy thoughts like that ...like....questioning exactly how this "non-free-will" thingy works.  Do you know what I mean? The only way that I can know if its God will or not, is if it "comes to pass"....Do you see that? or Not? :::still thinking she can get away with not doing the dishes today!:::::     ;D
joyful1


Hi Joyce,

If you had "free will" you could eliminate the dirty dishes just by willing it. You have the "choice" of doing them, leaving them, throwing them away, or paying someone to do them. But no matter what, you have to deal with them in some manner. The point is that we are constantly in situations we must deal with, we do have choices and make decisions but we cannot avoid the situations and must deal with the consequences of the choices we make. If you were to cut your finger while doing the dishes you could let it bleed, put on a band aid, go to the hospital but no matter what you have to deal with the bleeding finger, your "free will" is impotent in willing it to be healed. If you drive to the hospital and have a flat tire, you can get out and walk, take a cab or a bus, or you could change the tire, but no matter what you must deal with the flat tire, you cannot use "free will" to make the situation just go away. When you finally get to the hospital you see 20 people waiting ahead of you, you have the choice of waiting, turning around and leaving to try another hospital or screaming like a raving lunatic (my solution) to get prompt attention, your "free will" cannot change the circumstances that you are forced to deal with. Who is it that forces these circumstances? Who is the only one with a "free will" to change any circumstances at any time in any manner?

I hope this helps,

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
Logged

gmik

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2006, 01:17:27 PM »

What a great thread.  I am learning so much.  I too get mixed up a little on the "free-will thingy". Joe, good teaching on that.

About church, I sometimes go to see my granddaughter.  I left the Babylonian system years ago-in the spirit. Is going into a building with a bunch of people-in the physical??  Just cuz they call it church doesn't mean it is. I do have trouble telling people what I am doing now-I mean those who know I was very involved in church.  They also get suspicious of any Internet fellowship ;)

The Lord has us all in different places for our individual needs.  I judge no one for going or not going. To me, worse than going to church, would be to sit and watch TBN  ughhhhh......

gena
Logged

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2006, 05:47:08 PM »

So in essence, Joe, what you are saying is this:  we can make choices, but the things that God has purposed for us to experience, we will experience, one way or another?

::::looking around for a place to store those dirty dishes:::: ;D
joyful1
Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2006, 07:40:06 PM »

Yes, Joyful1,

We are forced to choose by the circumstances God has set before us, we are being molded by Him, we are the clay in His hands. The clay has no power over the Potter.


Isa 45:9  Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Isa 64:8  But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 18:6  O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
 

Free will is a myth, we can choose within the confines of the circumstances He has set before us, all of us will learn to make the right choices at some point, whether we like it or not, but eventually all humanity will come to love our Lord and His (and our) Father praising Him on bended knee singing the praises of God from our converted, incorruptable hearts.


Isa 45:22  Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
 
Isa 45:23  I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth,  in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

Rom 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Phi 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things in earth, and things under the earth;

I can't see any room at all for "free will" in the above verses.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe
 




Logged

keys2heaven

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2006, 11:20:50 PM »

I agree free will is a myth, but still don't think that God is making us choose between two things. For exampl, take Eve in the garden. Did God make her choose between good and bad or was eating the fruit the only choice she could make? True, Eve sinned before eating of the tree of good & evil. So, would she have known that she was making a bad choice? It seems that she would not have until she ate.

Sure, we have the ability to make choices. No on denies that. But if the very God who knew you before you were born, knows the number of hairs on your head, certainly knows how you will chose.

If God causes all of the circumstances around us that lead to our "choosing" that doesn't mean that God is ignorant of the choice we make beforehand. To us, it may seem that we had a choice to make, but God already knew the choice that was made.

Am I hosed up on this?



Logged

hillsbororiver

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2006, 10:03:45 AM »

No, our choice in any matter does not surprise Him as He knows our heart/mind. It is not the actual physical acts that judge us it is our thoughts and desires.

If I were to help Joyful1 change her tire as she was on her way to the hospital to have the finger she cut while doing the dishes treated, and as I helped her I was silently swearing and cussing about not really having the time to do it and now my clothes are all sweaty and dirty, I still have helped out physically but where do my thoughts have me spiritually?

He creates the circumstances (the mold) that shapes His pottery (clay).

After I calm down and meditate and grieve over my thoughts I realize how weak and carnal I really am and humbly pray for His Spirit to strengthen me, to remake my spirit more pleasing to Him.

This is how He molds and shapes us.

I can assure you I did not (or even mean to imply) surprise God in my actions and thoughts.

I hope this clears up my point.

His Peace and Wisdom to you,

Joe

 
Logged

joyful1

  • Guest
Re: Being called out of the church
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2006, 11:27:42 AM »

::::::getting out the FREE WILL notes again to read once more!:::::
::::papers flying all over the floor, making a perfect reason to avoid those dishes on the counter::::::

 ;D
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.065 seconds with 26 queries.