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Author Topic: New Doctrine...  (Read 11743 times)

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paulfisher

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New Doctrine...
« on: February 16, 2013, 05:20:18 AM »

In any of the letters in the New Testament, was any new doctrine taught, or had all doctrine been taught during the authors actual presence among the new saints?

Paul
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ez2u

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 02:53:23 PM »

not understanding?
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gregorydc

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 03:19:34 PM »

Wasn't it all new doctrine?  Everything in the letters (save a few spots) was written as scripture, all scripture was for our admonition, our learning. Therefore if it is scripture would it not be considered new doctrine when these letters were written?  Even Peter said Paul's letters were hard to decipher at times but were for our learning (paraphrasing there) . So I believe it is new doctrine.  Just a thought from a no one.
Greg
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indianabob

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 04:29:10 PM »

Try Ephesians 3:8-9 Paul explains that it had been revealed to him about the mysteries or spiritual secrets of God that had not previously been known by anyone, not even the 12.

But I make known to you, brethren that the gospel that was preached by me is not according to man.
 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
 For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the Church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it.
 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace,
 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. (Galatians 1:11-18).
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Joel

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 12:10:43 AM »

John the Baptist preached the Kingdom of God by the Spirit of God, having revelations also from the Old Testament, and died for doing so.
Jesus said that the religious leaders of his day didn't know him even though the scriptures of the old Testament plainly reveled him. They were blinded, and The Son of God was crucified.
Stephen by the Spirit preached Jesus to the multitudes and was stoned to death for it.
James, Peter, Paul, John, all these men died preaching the basics that The God of Love in the Old Testament, Is the God of Love that came to the world in the Lord Jesus Christ. Giving us the New Testament in his own blood.  Sound doctrine today reveals Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour from both Old, and New Testament witnesses of him.
Paul only had the Old Testament to preach from, and the Revelations that Jesus gave him directly that dovetailed with the Old Testament scriptures concerning him.

Joel
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paulfisher

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2013, 12:36:30 AM »

Let me rephrase... the authors of the New Testament preached the doctrine of Christ, in their person to others, who were called the saints. When they wrote these letters were they simply expounding on doctrine already taught by them, in person, to the saints, or was ANY NEW doctrine brought forth in any of these letters? The answer will basically be a "yes" they were simply expounding on doctrine already taught by them in person or "yes" they taught new doctrine in these letters (with hopefully a reference to the new doctrine).

Thank you all for your time and answers,

Paul

Ps. I am assuming that NO new doctrine was taught in any of the letters yet I am also aware of the saying that "Assumption is the mother of all mistakes", so, I just want to make sure that no new doctrine was taught or mentioned in these letters, so I can put that "to rest" mentally.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 12:49:45 AM by paulfisher »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 05:40:43 AM »

Still having trouble understanding, but I came across this passage that may (or may not) speak to the question as an example.


1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who, according to His vast mercy, regenerates us into a living expectation, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from among the dead,
1Pe 1:4 for the enjoyment of an allotment incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, kept in the heavens for you,
1Pe 1:5 who are garrisoned by the power of God, through faith, for salvation ready to be revealed in the last era,
1Pe 1:6 in which you are exulting; briefly at present, if it must be, being sorrowed by various trials,
1Pe 1:7 that the testing of your faith, much more precious than gold which is perishing, yet, being tested by fire, may be found for applause and glory and honor at the unveiling of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 1:8 Whom, not perceiving, you are loving; in Whom, not seeing at present, yet believing, you are exulting with joy unspeakable and glorious,
1Pe 1:9 being requited with the consummation of your faith, the salvation of your souls."
1Pe 1:10 Concerning which salvation the prophets seek out and search out, who prophesy concerning the grace which is for you,
1Pe 1:11 searching into what or what manner of era the spirit of Christ in them made evident, when testifying beforehand to the sufferings pertaining to Christ and the glories after these."
1Pe 1:12 To whom it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to you they dispensed them, of which you were now informed through those who are bringing the evangel to you by holy spirit dispatched from heaven, into which messengers are yearning to peer."
1Pe 1:13 Wherefore, girding up the loins of your comprehension, being sober, expect perfectly the grace which is being brought to you at the unveiling of Jesus Christ."

Certainly things happened recorded in the NT scriptures that are 'new'.  I guess I am stuck on the definition of 'doctrine'. 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rex8

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 06:52:26 AM »


Are you asking... is what the apostles wrote in the epistles any MORE than what they taught verbally in person?

I don't see how it would be possible to verify that.The only way would to be an eye witness or there was a ....written account .

This relates  to the question about binding and loosing.God is "writing" (not literally) on our heart.Which means he is communicating "directly" with us.The priest is christ ... the anointing...christ in you..BEING formed...salvation.

The doctrines of men is the crux of all the confusion (babylon) that has been going on for millinea.The prime examples of confusion and deafness was Israel.God delivered them out of Egypt( symbolic of the physical world) to communicate (commune) with them at Mt. Sinai...and they would not listen but wanted a priest...Moses(God gave them Aaron the idol maker).So instead of writing on their hearts in communion he wrote his word (obviously not all of them)in stone.

The only thing that has changed is we CAN hear God and have communion...yet many don't because they still want a priest just as the Israel did because of the hardness of their heart.Religion is much more desirable to  the carnal mind.They THINK they can control that and pay lip service to God( teach the doctrines of men).

This deafness is littered throughout human history.ALL caused by God who knows mans heart is dust and GOD is "changing" it.Some are wayside soil and don' receive the word at all.Others receive it gladly but they don't hear for long.Others grow in hearing but get choked by thistles and thorns(self righteousness of knowledge of "the word").The fertile soil hears it and grows and produces fruit that multiplies.

I would bet ALL church folks think they are fertile soil..and of course they would be VERY wrong.They will argue with their bible thumping on the table and on anything within earshot that "THEY KNOW THE WORD OF GOD!!!"....yet Paul says the law is a schoolmaster.After he lays out his self righteous pedigree as a Jew and Pharisee who has kept the Law and is blameless he counts it ALL as dung.

Is that not a HUGE clue of how this works.He didn't say the scriptures were dung as many who want to twists words would say..... he said all he LEARNED he counted as  dung...futility ... VANITY OF VANITY  in relation to communion with God.

Paul preached one thing ...Yahshua crucified and resurrected. The Father is the only teacher.... the  unveiler.Does he "use" men ..yes...as schoolmasters but that is not the end game.Our relationship is to be... Abba Father..not to a priest.Are the scriptures sin... GOD forbid! they are for a purpose WAY beyond what we imagine or know.But the words are babylon(religious doctrines of men) to those whose ears cannot hear....

God is not doctrine that is to be dissected and vivisected to death.Is it any wonder the vast disagreement of those the "claim" to know God is about the meaning of words of DOCTRINE.... it's the foolishness of men....and the outcome of disseminating it is always the same...more foolishness.

It ain't rocket surgery.God talks we listen..or not...this is the love of God that we "obey" (hear) his commandments(his will) and it IS NOT burdensome.Billions of folks have and do see doctrine in that ..I see none.EVERYTHING God communicates is hearing then doing.


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Ian 155

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 07:49:08 AM »

I think I get what you are asking,

The word is the same yesterday today and dare I say for ever, they expounded as did Christ to the two on the way to emmaus they were given the ability to see OT scripture with their spiritual eyes and then relayed the gospel of the kingdom via letters.

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

The only gospel of the kingdom is the spiritual gospel and they became aware by revelation ie Baptism,circumcision,Lords supper etc these were now spiritual not physical
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thewatchman

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 07:54:56 AM »

Even if all truth was taught, which I do not believe as the patriarchs of old looked forward to this time, so there should be some new revelation as there is the former rain to establish the seed and the latter to bring in the harvest, much of it has been forgotten. So there are plenty of new things to learn. IMO  8)
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cjwood

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2013, 04:55:56 PM »

i believe the only new "revelation" contained in the new testament was what peter and paul were shown regarding the bringing in of the nations (gentiles) also into the kingdom of God.  then after Christ's explanation of how it was expedient for Him to go away so that the Comforter, the very Spirit of God, would come and reside within our hearts.  thereby we have the same Spirit which Jesus had within Him during his lifetime on earth.  that was new because in the old testament the Spirit of God only rested on those whom it was ordained to be so.  the Holy Spirit of God was never available to come and reside within the hearts of those who believed God and were faithful.  it was not available until after Christ had ascended after His resurrection. 

also remember Jesus gave many examples of the higher expectations for the believers/disciples.  like going a step beyond the old law requirements.  a new code of living.  these are discussed in matthew chapters 5-7.  so the exhortations of Jesus were new revelations to those who heard. 

i don't know if any of this helps you paulfisher. 

claudia












« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 04:58:22 PM by cjwood »
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Ian 155

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 01:51:24 AM »

Even if all truth was taught, which I do not believe as the patriarchs of old looked forward to this time, so there should be some new revelation as there is the former rain to establish the seed and the latter to bring in the harvest, much of it has been forgotten. So there are plenty of new things to learn. IMO  8)

The word is the same ,yesterday today and tomorrow "I the Lord change not" was not the fulfillment in Christ complete "it is finished ?

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paulfisher

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 04:02:43 AM »

2Ti 3:16  "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Therefore, Scripture is living.

Doctrine is a position or policy being taught. The Letters found in the New Testament were written by their Authors to address issues relevant to the saints who received them, YET, they became Scriptures for all future generations of mankind, YET, no one will understand the messages found in them without the Holy Spirit.

There is perhaps some "new" doctrine mentioned although only the Holy Spirit can let us know for sure. It's not really important is it? I believe I was questioning to myself, wondering if the Authors would be inspired to mention doctrine not previously taught in person. I was just curious about that possibility and if any of the Authors actually said something to the effect of: "This is new doctrine" or "I have never mentioned this before" or something like that.

If the Authors never said anything like this then no "new" doctrine was being taught.

The doctrine found there will always be "new" for the called and especially the chosen... 

Thank you all.
Paul
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Ian 155

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 07:16:33 AM »

1Jn 1:3  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

we no longer rely on teachers rather the Holy Spirit guiding us /steering us in a direction of his choosing.


Interestingly Revelation 2 speaks of the over comer being shewed the Hidden Manna

The only new doctrine is that of the church  :'(
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Rhys 🕊

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 11:45:05 PM »

Concerning this. I'm sure this is all we need:

John 14:26  But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

I feel bringing to remembrance says a lot that causes real change that lasts when directed by His Spirit. That's the way God seems to work in me.

Blessings

Rhys
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Rex8

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2013, 05:37:00 AM »

1Jn 1:3  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

we no longer rely on teachers rather the Holy Spirit guiding us /steering us in a direction of his choosing.


Interestingly Revelation 2 speaks of the over comer being shewed the Hidden Manna

....................(

YES.. revelation(unveiling) IS the keys to the Kingdom Of God.Faith comes by HEARING and HEARING by the word of GOD......God SPEAKS it AND unveils it.There is no doctrine with God  only with man and his traditions that are babylon...
There are hundreds of thousands of babylon churches and even more teachers on the web ALL pushing their "revelation" from "God"  and NONE of it is revelation from God.....ZERO.

The keys to the Kingdom ONLY and ALL comes from God to YOU....if it doesn't... it is babylon...confusion ...foolish controversies over words.

It is ALL way to simple... folks either overcomplicate it or over simplify it but God clearly is only talking to YOU about YOU.If that was understood every church would shut down, religion would be seen for the utter foolishness it is,... however it is not that way now.The doctrines of men permeate everything until God burns it out of us.THAT is what is to be  overcome...THAT is the WORLD....not what the religious call the world.

Hearing is the hidden manna that is GIVEN.Yahshuas words are SPIRIT and truth..the FLESH (carnal mind) avails NOTHING.It is right there in flashing lights saying "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" yet man wants to worship the words and make them into doctrines of men and worship the WORDS as God!!!  pure insanity...rampant BABYLON insanity.

Let him that has ears HEAR the parable of the soil and The Seed.That is the KEY parable that CAUSES ALL hearing.NONE of the parables can be understood without hearing that parable.That kills the doctrines of men. 



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Rex8

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2013, 09:52:14 PM »

..................
In several of your posts you call Jesus, Yahshua.  The word Yahshua is not found in either the Hebrew or Greek scriptures.  By chance you wouldn't be one of those Sacred Names......persons, would you?

You talk about, "worship the WORDS as God!"  So I was interested in where you are coming from.

Ray discusses the name "Yahshua" in his article Solving the Enigma of God on the 1st page of the website.  http://bible-truths.com/enigmaOfGod.htm

Yes ...it is it is ALL over the scriptures. Yahshua, Yehoshua or Yeshua whatever way it is spelled or pronounced means Gods salvation.That NAME is what all the scriptures are about.

One thing for sure is no one called him Jesus.That is the transliteration from the  Greek  of Iesous.I don't compel ANYONE to call him what I call him though.

I am not a scared name follower or anyone or  anything else follower.Years ago when I was coming out of babylon I heard it from The Father.It is undoubtedly the name that every knee will bow to(Gods salvation).I was ONCE amazed (but not anymore AT ALL) that so many don't have a clue what it is or what it means or if they do think that it doesn't matter  very much.

It is all a part of babylon...confusion of language...hidden in plain sight and rejected because of there being no keys to hear.Iesous is a VERY important name though.The new testament was written in Greek for a reason...it is alphanumeric just as Hebrew is.Ieosus is a number...888(as are all the words hence ...ALL scriptures!) ..doesn't calling his name Yahshua seem "tame" in comparison!!yet it ALL means something.There are no accidents.

The truth is MUCH MUCH more than we THINK we know.Yahshua said very aptly "If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"

Yahshuas words are SPIRIT..they are not words of man.The Father will unveil MUCH more when our ears can hear.Yahshua, Iesous ,Jesus ...whatever a man can hear is what God has called them to.

The bottom line is God has caused mankind to worship (religion) words... God confused them at Babel and has not unconfused them... ALL according to GODs purposes.That is why the keys to the kingdom can ONLY come by unveiling from the Father...communion...it is all very simple.God talks we listen.God is the initiator not us.The veil has only begun to be lifted.Salvation is an infinite process.



« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 09:54:31 PM by Rex8 »
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newgene87

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2013, 10:55:53 PM »

..................
In several of your posts you call Jesus, Yahshua.  The word Yahshua is not found in either the Hebrew or Greek scriptures.  By chance you wouldn't be one of those Sacred Names......persons, would you?

You talk about, "worship the WORDS as God!"  So I was interested in where you are coming from.

Ray discusses the name "Yahshua" in his article Solving the Enigma of God on the 1st page of the website.  http://bible-truths.com/enigmaOfGod.htm

Yes ...it is it is ALL over the scriptures. Yahshua, Yehoshua or Yeshua whatever way it is spelled or pronounced means Gods salvation.That NAME is what all the scriptures are about.

One thing for sure is no one called him Jesus.That is the transliteration from the  Greek  of Iesous.I don't compel ANYONE to call him what I call him though.

I am not a scared name follower or anyone or  anything else follower.Years ago when I was coming out of babylon I heard it from The Father.It is undoubtedly the name that every knee will bow to(Gods salvation).I was ONCE amazed (but not anymore AT ALL) that so many don't have a clue what it is or what it means or if they do think that it doesn't matter  very much.

It is all a part of babylon...confusion of language...hidden in plain sight and rejected because of there being no keys to hear.Iesous is a VERY important name though.The new testament was written in Greek for a reason...it is alphanumeric just as Hebrew is.Ieosus is a number...888(as are all the words hence ...ALL scriptures!) ..doesn't calling his name Yahshua seem "tame" in comparison!!yet it ALL means something.There are no accidents.

The truth is MUCH MUCH more than we THINK we know.Yahshua said very aptly "If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"

Yahshuas words are SPIRIT..they are not words of man.The Father will unveil MUCH more when our ears can hear.Yahshua, Iesous ,Jesus ...whatever a man can hear is what God has called them to.

The bottom line is God has caused mankind to worship (religion) words... God confused them at Babel and has not unconfused them... ALL according to GODs purposes.That is why the keys to the kingdom can ONLY come by unveiling from the Father...communion...it is all very simple.God talks we listen.God is the initiator not us.The veil has only begun to be lifted.Salvation is an infinite process.

very very good point up there sir. truly, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind" (Romans 14:5). or I can just called Him SAVIOR :D. Sits well with me  ;)
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Rex8

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2013, 02:33:01 AM »



very very good point up there sir. truly, "Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind" (Romans 14:5). or I can just called Him SAVIOR :D. Sits well with me  ;)

yes Gene.... this is not difficult.I get asked all the time why I don't write or say Jesus and why I do say and write Yahshua yet I NEVER ask anyone why they do or don't because I don't care .That is between them and God.


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cjwood

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Re: New Doctrine...
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2013, 02:33:55 AM »

pronounce or spell Jesus how you please, BUT, Jesus is JEHOVAH, and JEHOVAH is Jesus.

praise and glory to His Father and ours!

amen and amen,
claudia
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 02:37:04 AM by cjwood »
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