falling away

[Gina]

Indeed.  Children (as well as adults) need and like boundaries.  Otherwise we feel lost and out of control.

I haven't yet begun to envy the churched.

[Rhys 🕊]

Indeed.  Children (as well as adults) need and like boundaries.  Otherwise we feel lost and out of control.

I haven't yet begun to envy the churched.

Feeling lost and out of control is something I have experienced a lot. Knowing my boundaries seems to be quite a challenge, well at least it is to me. I like this passage.

Act 17:26  And He has made all nations of men of one blood to dwell on all the face of the earth, ordaining fore-appointed seasons and boundaries of their dwelling,
Act 17:27  to seek the Lord, if perhaps they might feel after Him and find Him, though indeed He is not far from each one of us.

I recall someone once talking to me about boundaries but I didn't understand what they were talking about. But then how do you understand if you don't truly know God. I've been in the past rather hurt by others and then finding myself rather overwhelmed and left wondering where are my boundaries to allow myself from not being so hurt. I guess I have found over the years that I need to humble myself and accept that God is indeed in control of every aspect of my life.


John 8:36  Therefore if the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

It's Christ that makes us free in His time and like the verses in Acts above God has fore-appointed our seasons and boundaries. God is not confined by the boundaries and limitations of simple man and that's what I am. How do I know what the Lord has in store for me and what I should do, well I don't know and I find myself doubting myself and being confused.

I think as Dennis says we are told to endure and this isn't easy for me. Not only that we need to overcome, also not easy. I feel one thing that has helped me a lot recently after God has set me free with His truth is learning to rest in Him. Maybe I need to see this truth more instead of trying to run to and fro trying to do what God wants. I guess I want to please the Lord but in my own strength I will only fail. The following verses suggest the place that we should all desire to be in.

Mat 11:28  Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29  Take My yoke on you and learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you shall find rest to your souls.

Greg, Just trust in the Lord when you are feeling in distress, He loves and cares for you. He is our Father and we are His children. Greg your own strength is going to fail you as it has for me so many painful times. Rest in Him, He knows what He is doing. He will give you the rest you need and the ability to get back up again at the right time. He has done it for me.

This isn't easy for me and I'm sure this is the case for all of us. The church has no idea what it's about to go through these fiery trials and nor did I when I was there. I think they are blissfully ignorant of the truth, going along with whatever is happening instead of getting on there knees and truly humbling themselves. Well God has brought me down so many times to see His truth. I think for me I need to learn to stop fighting Him over so many things in my life and simply come to Him and find rest.

I still get many things that I beat myself up about. But I'm learning and it's a process in His time. I don't like how long it takes but He knows how long it will take. Trust Him.

Rhys

[Dennis Vogel]

Indeed.  Children (as well as adults) need and like boundaries.  Otherwise we feel lost and out of control.

I haven't yet begun to envy the churched.

I think we are held to a higher standard than church people and it requires us to obey in our hearts and not just in deeds. And that means we will not get away with anything for the duration of our lives. That correction may come early in life or later. But we will learn and eventually do what's right because it is in our hearts (I'm not saying we will die perfect) and not out of fear.

Church people believe they are saved because of their rituals and superstitions. They are ignorant of their rotten heart.

I'm not saying church people do not suffer, because they do. I'm saying God is not yet showing them what He has reveled to us and they are not striving as hard as we are driven to by Almighty God.

[Gina]

Indeed.  Children (as well as adults) need and like boundaries.  Otherwise we feel lost and out of control.

I haven't yet begun to envy the churched.

I think we are held to a higher standard than church people and it requires us to obey in our hearts and not just in deeds. And that means we will not get away with anything for the duration of our lives. That correction may come early in life or later. But we will learn and eventually do what's right because it is in our hearts (I'm not saying we will die perfect) and not out of fear.

Church people believe they are saved because of their rituals and superstitions. They are ignorant of their rotten heart.

I'm not saying church people do not suffer, because they do. I'm saying God is not yet showing them what He has reveled to us and they are not striving as hard as we are driven to by Almighty God.

Which is precisely why I don't envy them.   (Not yet, not ever.)

[Dennis Vogel]

All I'm saying Gina is they are not troubled by what's inside themselves. But we are constantly reminded.

[Gina]

It's good to have an honest estimation of ourselves.  I agree.  I get what you're saying, Dennis.  But God says, Don't let your heart be troubled.  If your heart condemns you, God is greater than your heart.  And besides, we don't know what's in the heart of others, aside from what their actions portray.  AS WE WELL KNOW--MOST OF THE CHURCHED ARE WALKING AROUND FAKING IT.  I know that was true for me.

[Dennis Vogel]

You're right Gina. I'm just posting this to have the last word 

[Gina]

Not so fast.     I mean, I used to be such a jealous person.  And then I realized that we ALL go through the same things.  We ALL end up feeling the same way.  It's a matter of time before they look at what they've done and beat their chests saying, God have mercy on me, a sinner.

Dennis, I don't know what you've done that is so horrible.  While you're no better than anyone here, you are such a blessing to me and everyone here.  I was just thinking about you and all you do and continue to do for us. 

I remember how Ray said told the story of the Good Samaritan and how he helped that man who was robbed and took him to a hospital and put out lots of good money to help the man.  Did he like the man?  Doesn't say.  I give a small pitance every month or so to B-T, but there was a time when I didn't want to give any money at all.  Why?  Because I was angry as I was having to struggle looking at my heart.  But then I looked and saw all that Christ did and all that Ray was doing and what you were doing in spite of all the detractors and the negative stuff (just from me alone) and you didn't stop giving in a way that even I could benefit from it, no.  So that helped me get my rear in gear and say, well, I might not like or agree with a lot of the people on BT but I'm going to contribute to the site anyway, even if it's just a little, and maybe someone like me (with my rotten heart) will be made happy like I was happy before my idols of the heart started to be crushed.  lol  Little did I know how much helping others like that (in that very small way) would change my rotten heart eventually from bitterness to gratitude and slowly but surely mercy.  Not all there yet, but I'm not where I was.  Thank God for B-T!

[Dennis Vogel]

I don't know what you've done that is so horrible.

Nothing I can think of. Many, many years ago a minister explained to me that our sins are like an onion. You peal off a layer and there is another, and another, ... That's how it's been for me.

Ecc 1:2  Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

There are many physical sins we can overcome. But I don't think we will ever conquer pride and vanity.

[Dave in Tenn]

I think I understand that even when I try to do good, it has evil unintended (by me) consequences.  Faith is that evil is temporary and meant for good.  Faith is that our 'good' is improvable, but that comes through hard experience which includes failures.

Back to the OP.  Just a testimony, so take from it whatever suits.  I'm not a daily bible-reader.  But I am a daily bible-thinker.  For me, bible-study is 'hearing' but life is 'doing'.  So far, the Lord seems perfectly capable of seeing me through "dry" spells by causing my life to unfold in such a way that His word and my life come together.  Sometimes it's wonderful, and sometimes it's terrible, and it happens most often when I am not trying to force it.  That's what 'written in our hearts' means to me.

We're called on to prove what is true.  For me, if it doesn't match real-life, it can't be proven no matter how many verses I can string together.  As others have said, it's still not about religious box-ticking.  Take what you have and live.  If you do, He will add more to it.

OK, so I tossed a sermon into the end of the testimony.  Sue me. 

     

[Rhys 🕊]

  Sometimes it's wonderful, and sometimes it's terrible, and it happens most often when I am not trying to force it.  That's what 'written in our hearts' means to me.

OK, so I tossed a sermon into the end of the testimony.  Sue me. 

Ha ha I think I will sue you Dave

I like your line about sometimes it's wonderful and terrible. That's true for me too. I don't like the dry spells either but I know God has His reasons for it even if I can't see it. I guess I see later on that a change has occurred in me and I needed to go through the hard times to get to that place. I sometimes wish there was an easier way but God does things His way which of course is the best way.

I enjoyed reading your post Dave.

Bless you

Rhys

[Gina]

I don't know what you've done that is so horrible.

Nothing I can think of. Many, many years ago a minister explained to me that our sins are like an onion. You peal off a layer and there is another, and another, ... That's how it's been for me.

Ecc 1:2  Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

There are many physical sins we can overcome. But I don't think we will ever conquer pride and vanity.

Well, I agree with you there.  But we can get to a place where pride and vanity don't have dominion over us.  I think we know so much now that we feel bad if we do things that in any way resemble pride or vanity.  What are those things anyway?  Am I vain because I happen to drive a nicer car than 99%  of the world's population can afford -- even though I could have gotten a junker that still runs?   I'd gladly take an a@@'s colt to work, but I'd be fired in the first week because I'm almost positive I'd arrive late. 

[Gina]

Okay, that's a lie -- I would definitely not "gladly" ride an a@@'s colt to work.  I would dread it every step of the way.

[cjwood]

And that means we will not get away with anything for the duration of our lives. That correction may come early in life or later.

dennis,
i pulled the bolded and underlined section of your post to say a loud and resounding AMEN!  i have said so many times to myself that i never get away with anything.  be it large or small.  i used to always wonder why. 

through your statement noted above, i now understand clearly why.  i underlined the last part because i am learning that i still never get away with anything, although i consciously try not to do anything that i need to get away with.  but sometimes life happens. 

thank you dennis. 

claudia

[Gina]

"Getting away with things."  I remember even Ray asked someone in an email exchange somethnig to the effect, "Are you punished for everything that you've ever done wrong?"  I agree with Claudia in that God doesn't let me get away with things, and even if it's only my conscious that's bothered and I'm freaking out over what might befall me, I don't always get what I have coming to me.  I don't know why, but I just feel that God has blessed me so abundantly over my life, even with all the hardships -- but I can say that only having come through them. 

"Oh ye of little faith (actually, Jesus called His disciples perverted -- because of their total lack of faith).  Why are you wondering among yourselves if I'm talking about the bread--did you already forget that I fed the 5,000 with the fish and loaves?"

So when my faith is lacking and I'm perverted enough to forget that Jesus feeds people to the gills, I just reflect on all the times that He fed me to the gills -- deservedly so or not, and my spirit is rejuvenated.

[Rhys 🕊]

I just feel that God has blessed me so abundantly over my life, even with all the hardships -- but I can say that only having come through them. 

Good points there shorty. We often just don't see what God is doing when we go through the hard times and I would pray Lord get me out of this and He does in His time. Got me thinking about this passage.

Rom 5:3  Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance,
Rom 5:4  and endurance produces character, and character produces hope,
Rom 5:5  and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

I find it hard to rejoice at the time as I'm sure most of us do but it's like I get there slowly.

Praise God that our hope we now have in Him will not put us to shame.

God grows us in His way and in His time.

Rhys

[Gina]

Indeed.  Every man in his own order.  God is not the author of confusion. . .

[gregorydc]

Dearest brothers and sisters,
  With much love and prayers for you all, for your encouragement from God almighty to me, I ask God to bless you all for these many great things. And I ask for many more uplifting comments. I have been inspired greatly, but I have had a looming question on my mind that goes with all of this.  (1 Tim 1:20) of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto satan that they may learn not to blasphemeI remembered this scripture part way through this thread and wondered if this was concerning me,(not the blasphemy part) have I been given back over to satan to learn something else? Not only that did these two ever learn their lesson and were they allowed to be brought back into the flock? I don't want to be given back to satan, but sometimes this falling away episode seems to me that that is what's happening. That frightens the jeepers out of me. I know I am not to let my heart be troubled, and all is of God, but how is a person to ever not be fearful of falling away and not being excepted by God into His kingdom. My looming marriage (divorce) difficulties, being lonely, l recently seem to have an eye for women,  my hip/back going out on me, the usual financial difficulties(mostly annoying, rarely detrimental God always supplies) , I am sure I am not the only one with these type of problems, but it sure does feel like I am alone in my self pity, maybe that is all this is self pity. Could it just be that satan is causing all these feelings to fall on me at the same time?  I apologize to everyone for this mess of mass confusion. I have a lot of questions here and if there is someone to unravel this mess and help me out again it would be greatly appreciated.

[Rhys 🕊]

Excellent stuff there John. It's an encouragement to me too.

Greg I get days when I feel terrible and the other days when I feel good. It's a necessary thing to go through the experience of evil. Talk about being handed over to Satan feels like my 15 years of demonic attacks. It was like Satan could of his way with me anytime and whatever way he wanted, seriously I would scream at times and I don't know where God was in those times. I don't think anyone gets how bad that was for me except me and the Lord and I still feel rather alone because of it. You mentioned some words there of a verse I have been thinking a lot about lately:

John 14:27  Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

Boy do I need this like a man dieing of thirst in a desert needs a drink of water. Some days I seem to be there, other days not. I don't have all the answers, just have to take each day as it comes.

Don't apologize for the mess. I think it's good when we share our mess. I do. We need to be there for each other in whatever we can.

Bless you my friend and keep looking to Him the author and perfecter of our faith.

Rhys

[dean kevin heyes]

Hi Greg try this:{FAITH IS  HOPE OF KNOWING WHAT WILL GIVE YOU FAITH IN WHAT YOU KNOW AND THEREFOR HOPE}   understand  you allready believe, and believing is what we think it is all that we need, but its not , and neither is it Biblical, GOD in HIS wisdom has allways  provided us with irrefutable proof, and those who say they do not need it, are fooling themselfs. You say you love your bretheren, is trust not an act of love ? I asked GOD for proof as I wished to know, as belief was not enough for me ! GOD gave me that proof and more, much more than I could ever have dreamed of ! I am going to share this in my testimony and all it will require is  a little faith a little trust and a little digging. and the reward of which is a knowledge that will not allow you to loose faith, the very thought, will not even enter your mind, GOD willing